.jpg)
The Trans•Parency Podcast Show
In The Trans•Parency Podcast Show podcast, the host team, Shelbe Chang, Shane Ivan Nash, Jessie McGrath, and Bloosm C. Brown take you on a journey exploring the transformation stories, community dynamics, advocacy, entertainment, trans-owned businesses, and current events surrounding the lives of trans individuals.
Join us in enlightening conversations as we sit down with guests from the trans, LGBTQ+ community, and allies. Through powerful storytelling, they delve into their journeys, highlighting the trans people's transition from who they once were to their authentic selves. Also, this podcast uncovers individuals' experiences as allies who positively impact the trans community.
Our purpose-driven mission is to empower the trans community and uplift our voices, ensuring that we can be heard and beyond far and wide.
The Trans•Parency Podcast Show
Breaking Silence: Survivor Stories of Allegations Against Rose Montoya
Can you imagine reliving the most traumatic experiences of your life on a public platform, hoping your story will help others heal?
Warning: This episode discusses sensitive and potentially distressing topics, including sexual assault and domestic violence. Listener discretion is advised. The personal stories shared by our guests are their own experiences and opinions. The producers, hosts, and production team of The Transparency Podcast Show do not endorse or verify their claims. Additionally, Rose Montoya, who is mentioned in this episode, has denied all allegations against them. Please listen with care and support
Jacob Diamond (https://www.instagram.com/phallodaddy/) and Elijah Kaidence Alter (https://www.instagram.com/devinedeceptionofficial/) do just that as they bravely recount their harrowing encounters with Rose Montoya, who has denied the allegations against her.
Their candid revelations about discomfort, aggression, and the violation of consent serve as a stark reminder of the struggles many survivors face in their quest for healing. We aim to create a safe space where these stories can be shared, understood, and respected.
Resource: Resource: https://www.rainn.org/tags/domestic-violence
Did you know that podcasts are a great way to grow your personal and business brand voice?
Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms: https://bit.ly/3wOecFr
----
CONNECT WITH TRANS-PARENCY PODCAST SHOW ON SOCIAL MEDIA
▶︎ YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCozHvJj0NTeKtvC8P5gyxqA
▶︎ INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/transparencypodcastshow/
▶︎ FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thetransparencypodcastshow
▶︎ TIKTOK | https://www.tiktok.com/@thetransparencypodcast
DISCLAIMER: This description may contain links from our affiliates, sponsors, and partners. If you use these products, we will get compensated - but there's no additional cost to you.
Content warning. This episode discusses sensitive and potentially distressing topics, including sexual assault and domestic violence. Listener discretion is advised. The personal stories shared by our guests are their own opinions and experiences. The producers, host and production team of the Transparency Podcast Show do not endorse or verify their claims. Team of the Transparency Podcast Show do not endorse or verify their claims. Additionally, rose Montoya, who is mentioned in this episode, has denied all allegations against them.
Speaker 2:Please listen with care and support she felt really welcome to my body, not just in an intimate way.
Speaker 1:Affection was almost always aggressive. I'm really proud of the both of you for standing up, because this is a conversation that unfortunately, as a trans mask leader, I hear stories more regularly than are broadcast more regularly than our broadcast.
Speaker 3:And she came out of nowhere and she immediately came with. I don't believe them, I see you. And she came as a friend in a time where I really needed one. She comes with the positive affirmations and the safety she sees it as this flirting moment of I was asking for it, I wanted it, her parents were right there, I had. I come from a family, familial thing. I have family trauma. I have the quiet, don't say anything.
Speaker 4:If you are new to this channel which I know a lot of you may be new for this particular episode make sure you hit the subscribe button down below so that way you'll know when we post new videos like so Now. As you can see, the tone here today is going to be a little bit different than what we normally do. Today we have to put a disclaimer on this episode that some of the content that we'll be talking about today will are. Where are y'all? It's all right, do you want?
Speaker 1:me to take it Boston I got it Okay.
Speaker 4:Some of the content that we're going to be talking about today is going to be truly intense. There will be conversations around sexual assault, rape, and so we will have to put a heavy trigger warning on this episode. So please feel free to take care of yourselves as you are listening to the stories and the experiences that are going to be happening today. This is an opinionated show. Everything that we share here today are our views, our opinions, our experience, and can nobody police that. Let me make it very clear no one can police the experiences, the views, the opinions that will be heard here today, and so today, this episode is about truth, and our guests here today are here to share their truth, and our guests here today are here to share their truth. Recently, they've both come out on social media and have acknowledged that Rose Montoya has aided them, and they are here to share their experience. This is the Transparency Podcast Show. Elijah and Jacob to our show. How are y'all doing? Elijah and Jacob to our show?
Speaker 3:How are y'all doing? It would be a lie to say that I'm not nervous, but I want to make sure that the intentions of this is that my emotions aren't on display for people to analyze my believability, but to understand what exactly our experience was and what we're asking for.
Speaker 4:How are you feeling, Jacob?
Speaker 2:I'd like to echo what Elijah said and hop on that and say I've had five years to process these feelings and all the stuff that happened.
Speaker 1:So the way I talk about it or you know, my feelings of how to address it might be different than people who are just now processing or you know, just now finding out and I understand that.
Speaker 2:I've gone through the whole spectrum of emotions.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, this is just where I'm at right now, after five years, absolutely Well, this space is for you to share anything that you would like to share, address anything that you would like. Our intention here is to create safe healing spaces, okay, and so recently you all came out on social media and you posted about it, and so we do have video from Elijah Elijah's Instagram. Let's check it out. So, jacob, let's start with you. Tell us what is your experience that you would like us to know and share.
Speaker 2:I dated Rose Montoya from October 2018 to April 2020. To April 2020. Abuse, I guess technically may not have started until June 2019. But the abusive behavior was present from day one and the. The abusive behavior was present from day one and the complete absence of asking for consent or affirmative consent was present the whole time.
Speaker 2:I had spent most of the year homeless or couch surfing and I had been essayed at a job, maybe like a couple months before. I was just in a really raw place. I was trying to figure out everything I needed for phalloplasty and, I'll admit, I was still heartbroken over the girlfriend who had dumped me in January of that year, so when?
Speaker 1:Rose and I started talking.
Speaker 2:I lived in Portland and she lived in Seattle. She just seemed really eager to get to know me and she would say very gender affirming things, and so that struck my fragile trans mask ego. I was in a rough place. So like I welcomed any attention, Like I'll admit, like I was definitely a really insecure person back then. Um, and I was about to go through a series of surgeries. I didn't know how I was going to go. So the idea of you know that excited me, Um, uh I. It took a really long time to realize, you know cause. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, or I like to try not to be judgmental of people, or, you know, not think the worst or assume the worst. But I was never 100 comfortable with her. Uh, is that she was always?
Speaker 1:can you explain what you mean by 100 comfortable? Just if we can dive into that a little bit more, because I think the audience was really looking for clarification on that and I would love to kind of hear that.
Speaker 2:She felt really welcome to my body, not just in a, you know, intimate way. Affection was almost always aggressive and I, you know, I've never experienced that and like I've never experienced that, and like I've only dated women since 2009, so like it was just just a different kind of woman to me. So, like you know, all women are different, so I don't know you know it's not what society says is traditional femininity is what you know, but you know it's not traditional. It's not what society says is traditional femininity is what you know. But you know, she also paired it with, like excitement and eagerness and you know talking about trans joy and, like you know, excitement for my surgeries and like seeing excitement for, like things I'm trying to do within the community. So I thought that we were, you know, seeing excitement for things I'm trying to do within the community. So I thought that we were bonding because we had mutual core values.
Speaker 1:Do you feel that that was intentional, like a pattern of behavior in hindsight?
Speaker 4:Like a narcissist or just a pattern of behavior you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because from what I've talked with Elijah and what I've talked with other people who you know I'm going to comment on, I know for me, in my experience it it seems like, and just from my knowledge of what she's done publicly, the public knowledge about her what she said she wanted within a relationship and what she wanted with what she valued for herself. She aligned it with what I you know, what I wanted within a relationship and with intimacy and which everybody craves.
Speaker 2:Honestly, you know we're human, so and you know her values, um, but it seems that the person that I dated um was just trying to cater their whatever persona that they were presenting to me, for me, so I would like them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and recently on social media there has been a lot of conversation with you about this email. You posted a video a TikTok actually with you talking about this email that she sent you, when you all and forgive me if I get this wrong were like breaking up or was it At least like two, two and a half months after the breakup. Okay, gotcha, in which she made some pretty damning confessions. Do we have the? Video, and we do have the video here with us, so let's take a look at it.
Speaker 1:It's okay if we show that.
Speaker 2:Rose, I was just informed that you've accused me of DV, even though you've admitted to DV in our relationship. So I was just wondering why did you send me this email where you confessed to all the ways you harmed me, and yet I'm the one who harmed you? Why didn't you say that? Why are you admitting to violating me? I'm just really confused. Why aren't you answering all the questions from the trans community? They have a lot of questions right now. They want you to take accountability. You confess right here. Look at what you said. I didn't say that this is from your Gmail account. I just want you to take accountability for the ways that you've harmed me, my brother and the others.
Speaker 4:Okay, now I'm gonna shift a little bit here, because I've been watching your stories in particular, and apparently there have been some people out here that think that this is fake. This is not real, that you just did this for attention. Talk to us First of all. How are you feeling once you're looking at that, and what do you say to those people who are saying all of those vile things when they don't know what actually happened?
Speaker 1:And also just before you answer that I just want to say you to say it's really brave what you're doing.
Speaker 1:I commend the two of you for both showing up today to have this conversation and hopefully we can land an educational and a healing space for us.
Speaker 1:And just before you answer that next question, I just want to say I'm really proud of the both of you for standing up, because this is a conversation that unfortunately, as a trans mask leader, I hear stories more regularly than our broadcast and even myself it was a little rough for me to show up to this episode today and I had a big discussion with Blossom whether or not I was going to be here, because I wasn't really interested in making some sort of trauma porn of reliving my own or rehashing experience, because it does happen in the trans mass community and it's quite not spoken about. So I really do just want to take a moment just to commend the two of you for starting this conversation amongst our brothers, because a lot of our brothers from my private conversations are hurting and the two of you are bringing light to a dark space. So I just wanted to acknowledge that before we answer the next question.
Speaker 4:And I ask that question out of anger, because you should not be getting attacked like that and so I would love for you to take the time to talk about what your response would be to those people who are saying that this is not true and this is fake news, and that you're doing this for attention.
Speaker 2:You asked two questions uh, yes, about, uh, people saying that this is a false narrative, yes, and then that asked about the email. I'll address the false narrative first. Um, uh, it's widely known within the community that I, I do sw and that's been my, which is sex work for anyone that's in the chat that doesn't know what that is, and I've been doing that for survival since 2018.
Speaker 2:I had all my surgery money stolen and all my belongings taken from me, so it was not really and there's other reasons, there's more into that, but for the line of work that I do, I'm not struggling, and if I wanted to make more money with it, I would just book more gigs, which I don't have a problem with interest with that.
Speaker 2:I can't do that because of all the things that she did to me. So if I wanted to make more money with this, why would I talk about all this stuff? This is the least enticing thing to talk about, and I've been talking about it on my Twitter, which is what I primarily use to promote this work. That's not what you see people in my industry do, unless if it is absolutely true and I was adamant about doing it on Twitter and once I found out that she is in SW and has worked with trans mass people since, so that made me realize that it is very important that we come forward as soon as possible, absolutely, and so it just it just it doesn't make sense why, if I just wanted to make more money with this, I would just do this work instead of. You know, mostly just do solo work, and then you know.
Speaker 1:So what you're saying is like the damage has kind of prevented you from furthering your career.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm actually only in this industry because of what she did to me. I had to leave the state that I had state health care because it was too triggering and I was living in the apartment where most of the assaults happened, so I was just mentally not well.
Speaker 2:And the only insurance coverage I could get had a $4,000 deductible and $110 monthly premium, and what I was working with before was $0 and $0 with the Oregon health plan.
Speaker 2:So I was too mentally unwell to hold any sort of vanilla job, as you say. My adrenal glands were so damaged that people getting in within 10 feet of me, you know, raises my blood pressure. So I just needed the money fast because my dysphoria was so bad I was afraid that I would hurt myself if I didn't. Because the dysphoria got worse, because I was on track to finish these surgeries and then I did want to further sexualize my body by having that final surgery which makes it, you know, gives it function, because that's you know, I just I'd already experienced everything else that she wanted to do to me, so I just I couldn't imagine Was she supportive of your surgery at any point, how this was happening, because phalloplasty is a big deal for trans men and I am not a trans man, but it's important, as your trans sister, that I step out as well too, so my trans sisters who are watching this can step up more for y'all, and that's what's really really important.
Speaker 4:Did she support you in any way while you were getting those surgeries was really really important. Did she support you in any way while you were getting those?
Speaker 2:surgeries. I mean emotionally leading up to it. She was emotionally supportive and I do remember I believe it was a text message we were texting and she because it's widely known in the phalloplasty you know, with the phalloplasty patients and people considering pursuing it that especially if you opt out of a vaginectomy, you're just not supposed to have any sexual contact for three months. And she had been to more than one consultation with me or appointment with my surgeon.
Speaker 1:So she went to the consultations and was aware of the risks.
Speaker 2:She wasn't at everyone, but she went to at least two, so she was aware of the risks.
Speaker 4:She was aware that you could not be having sex during this time frame of your surgeries correct Gotcha, and she made a comment saying like oh, three months.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I can wait that long. We're getting close to dating a year at that point. So I just kind of brushed it off because it's just like you know, my girlfriend really likes sex.
Speaker 4:So she's not going to do anything, I can trust her because we think trans women are always attacked which we are but then we're not talking enough about trans men and the harm that's caused to them and sometimes the harm that comes from trans women to trans men, because trans men are supposed to protect us.
Speaker 4:Trans men are not supposed to have a story, trans men are supposed to be sitting in the back or whatnot, and it's unfortunate, but some of my trans listeners are going to have to do better that, just because the outside world deems us as one thing or whatever, we should not be treating other people abusively because we know that they're not going to come up against us and reinforce this whole stigma of trans women to these conservatives.
Speaker 4:That's not okay and I feel, in my personal view, that Rose has done that and she is a white-passing Latina trans woman and I'm going to bring that into this conversation Because, with some of the Latina trans girls and I love my brown trans sisters, but I have to say this in healing and in love some of them use white supremacy and these Eurocentric standards to uphold this harm, and I've seen it with both of you and with you, jacob, stockholm Syndrome that is probably one of the most horrific things that you may be getting accused of right now probably one of the most horrific things that you may be getting accused of right now. So, for those of you that don't know what Stockholm syndrome is, it's basically when you have an attachment feelings, empathy, compassion to your abusers. This was a term that was actually coined in Sweden when people were held hostage I think it was a bank robbery or something and they develop empathy, compassion to their captives. And so what do you say to people who are saying that you're suffering from Stockholm syndrome?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if that's what I'm suffering from now. I've been working on trauma healing to work through feelings of anger and frustration and sadness. I definitely was suffering from Stockholm syndrome while I was with her and in the months afterwards, because I couldn't even say the R word in my head to myself that that's what she was doing, even though I knew that I was saying no and I was giving her the medical reasons why and she was just doing like the medical reasons why and she was just doing what she wanted anyway and I knew that that was wrong. But I keep jumping timeline. It's all right, it's okay.
Speaker 1:It's a complicated subject matter. Subject matter and and you know the way that I have seen what's going on online with you, um, it's definitely triggered me personally. Uh, it's triggered a lot of trans, especially mask folks that are honestly afraid to come forward. Um, it's been really brave for the two of you to come forward because, especially as trans masc individuals, we have this nuance where it's like this masculinity archetypes that we kind of have to live up to that we couldn't get assaulted, we can't be that one, we're big and strong. That doesn't happen to us.
Speaker 1:But even in my own personal case I mean I never would have thought it happened to me, but it's even happened to me in more than once and more stories than I could even say on this episode yet that I'm not quite healed yet to talk about masculinity that we as trans masks take on, that almost makes it impossible to address this, because we're also really concerned with how it may reflect on trans women, because I mean, trans women are a part of our community.
Speaker 1:I see, when trans women are harmed, I feel like I'm being harmed and it's a very complicated, nuanced conversation to have because, as Dominique was saying on her live, it was really refreshing to actually hear a trans woman say something that was really accountable. I mean, she dove into the fact that a lot of you know T for T relationships specifically with trans women, because that's what she was speaking on. They kind of have this fear to label trans women as aggressive because it's considered a masculine trait. So there's these nuances of the community almost capsizing and protecting that outward image of the community as a whole, but then it kind of possibly can really breed a breeding ground for people that may know that nuance and take advantage of it, so on our first date, um, we hugged each other and it felt like a really nice hug I hadn hadn't had.
Speaker 2:You know, it was a nice oxytocin response. I hadn't hugged somebody that I liked in a really long time. Uh, and she would later, you know, tell me she'd be like, oh, that that's the moment that we fell in love with each other. So kind of like whatever, whatever feelings I was having, like she was kind of like, kind of using her words to sink them in deeper. I guess I didn't recognize it as manipulative or gaslighting. I thought it was just romantic at the time Because I had been assaulted before and we had talked about it and we had talked about how I had tonic immobility.
Speaker 2:We had talked about it and we had talked about how I had tonic immobility, which means, um, during a fight or flight response, oftentimes during SA, that, uh, you, you're just either silent or you just kind of disassociative or in a depersonalized state and just kind of go along Like, if tonic immobility, you're not going to hear, like it's, you're usually not going to hear an enthusiastic consent. You might hear consent if it happens. But she didn't get affirmative consent on our first date and she didn't ask any form of consent. She just threw me on her bed and ripped off my clothes and just started doing what she wanted, even after we already had that conversation about tonic and mobility. So I just, you know, I didn't know what to do, Just kind of went along with it, Cause I've been on first dates where I've told people to stop and they didn't, and it didn't go well for me. So that's why, you know, I I had that mental block for a really long time and I'm probably still dealing with it.
Speaker 4:Okay, no, thank you for that. Thank you for sharing your story.
Speaker 2:The first time that she blatantly violated me against my explicitly expressed consent. We were in Idaho for her cousin's vacation and we were in an open loft area that didn't have walls or a door or anything. That was right above the kitchen and the kitchen was right above all the bedrooms and there was her 15-year-old deaf sister and then other much younger minors and her aunt and uncle and her parents were all sleeping down there and I didn't expect her to, because you know the situation.
Speaker 2:She started to try to touch me and I said like no, your family's here.
Speaker 2:And also there's in general, because the family's there, because minors are there, you know we can just do it another time but also, like her sister's, deaf, so she's not going to hear anything if she walks into the kitchen, but she might see something Are you kidding? And just in general, kids and intimacy I don't even make out in front of kids, right? So I said no, your family's here. And then she just touched me. Anyway, she didn't R-word me, uh, but I was very direct, uh, with no, and why not? That you need to give a reason why, but it seemed kind of obvious by the situation that I shouldn't have had to say it, but I just reminded her in case of like that was she forgot she, in case she was caught up in the moment, um, the second time she blatantly violated my um, express no. Um. We were in Utah visiting my friends and so my friend Ty and Britt they've talked about this publicly and Britt's been calling her out since 2023.
Speaker 4:I actually think I saw the messages yeah, Okay, gotcha Okay gotcha and Ty remembers hearing Britt say this.
Speaker 2:I remember hearing Britt say this. And Britt was telling Rose not me, because I've known this couple for years and I used to be his coach they knew they didn't have to tell me hey, you know, we need to sleep in my kid's bedroom because they have like five kids, four or five kids. They have a lot of kids, more than me. They said, hey, britt told Rose, hey, you're going to respect that space because that's my kid's space. And we all heard Rose say yes.
Speaker 2:So this time, because it was in a minor's bed, I thought that that was a bit more clear, that that is a boundary you don't cross, especially when the homeowners, the parents of the child and the person that you're in bed with are all saying no. And the same thing happened there, that happened in Idaho, and both cases I was just too shocked and too afraid because there there are children around. So if I freaked out or I got upset or if I screamed or I know that my anxiety is can make other people anxious I just I didn't want to, I didn't want to freak out kids too, and it was just. It was too much for me to kind of absorb and I just kind of I shouldn't have. But after the fact I just told myself like hey, you know, it was her cousin's wedding. She got caught up in the romance of everything you know and then nothing happened again like blatantly. We dated nearly a year without me. Those were the only two times I said no to her, no to her advances, and she violated them.
Speaker 4:Are you okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this may be like a trigger warning for this next part. Okay, just blood and gore. Okay, the first time she R-worded me I was maybe only five or six days out of the hospital, so about, I think, 11 days post-op from my first phalloplasty surgery. So that was really, you know. Again, you think that boundaries have been clearly put out and it should be obvious, like you shouldn't have to tell someone that you know, hey, this person's bleeding out of all their genitals, don't stick anything in there, um, so I, I, I was on the percocet and I was on like gabapentin and so the type of phalloplasty I had. You know, I actually couldn't walk because they took the donor tissue from my leg and they took skin graft from the other leg, so my left leg was actually immobile, I wasn't allowed to bend at the waist and I had to keep my phallus at a 90 degree angle to maintain the blood flow, to make sure the body accepted the appendage. And I'm wearing like a diaper, basically, with bandages for everything, because I'm actually bleeding out of everything, because I kept all of my original genitalia intact, so things were affected down there, um, and part of my like original anatomy, like it felt like it ripped the first time she r-worded me.
Speaker 2:Um, I told her, you know, like no, dr burley said three months and like I barely got those words out and like she wrote me on my side and and kind of pinned me down and just forced herself inside of me. And you know, because that's my girlfriend that I've been dating for a year, who's also trans, and she knew that I've wanted a penis ever since the first time I saw one when I was five and I realized that's what made me different than the other boys and that I wanted my first time to be special and I didn't want my first time to be like that. No one does so that. And plus I was on the drugs and I was just so delirious from the pain everywhere I had a lot of nerve pain. I was in a perpetual disassociative state for like a year at that point. It took like a year before I started to maybe start to feel a little bit more human again.
Speaker 2:I needed many, many months away from her and I'm bringing these all up because you know she's accused me of DV or of SA, and one of the ways she's accused me of SA it's like that's not even physically possible, like there's medical documentation. Also, she's saying that I did to her what I told her she did to me and she said she didn't remember so and she's just saying that I did the things to her that she did to me. And you know, if that was true, I think that she would have said that in the email, instead of admitting that she violated me and she forced herself upon me. She also alluded to the fact that she's done it in the past, which you know. She admitted to me on our first date, but she tried to justify it because it was like she also could have been lying about how, like the exact events you know.
Speaker 2:She made it sound very gray could have been very black and white, hence you know she made it sound very gray. Could have been very black and white. But the last, my fifth example of her blatantly just not making any attempt for affirmative consent or blatantly violating my right to say no when I've expressed no is this is what she accuses me of doing, which I did not have sensation in my appendage and it was non-functioning at the time. So it doesn't make sense. Also, I would never do that. Also, I was crying on the couch and we weren't even talking and she jumped me out of nowhere and forced herself inside my mouth so I had to shove her off of me because it scared the crap out of me, and that's happened to me before.
Speaker 2:So when she calls herself a consent advocate and an ethical sex educator, it just Sounds hypocritical.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she weaponizes consent.
Speaker 2:I would say that's her guilty conscience speaking, but I don't think she feels guilty, like I think she's just trying to cover her tracks. But yeah, and then I found out that she went after cause I was. She told me that she was going to get professional help in that email. So like I was just like okay, I had no reason to think that she wouldn't. Then I found out she was dating Elijah Uh, so I knew that she was going to hurt him too.
Speaker 4:Okay, um, thank you so much for sharing and support.
Speaker 1:Dealing with the aftermath of sexual assault can be overwhelming, but you're not alone and you may have to talk to a friend or family member or counselor. Seek out resources. The rape abuse and incest National Network, known as RAINN, has a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week support line. You can reach them either by phone at 1-800-656-4673 or online. Other resources are available, including National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-779-7233. The Office for Victims of Crime is available online. The Trevor Project is also available at 1-866-488-7386, by online text or phone. The ACLU is also available for legal assistance or referrals if needed.
Speaker 1:Think about talking to the police. Sexual assault is a crime and you have a right to report it to the police and press charges against any person that has assaulted you. You can call the police yourself. You can have a rape crisis counselor or someone you trust. Do it. The police will come and ask you questions. Or someone you trust do it. The police will come and ask you questions and they may ask you to talk about whether or not you want to press charges. Police can also help you get a doctor or a nurse for an exam as soon as possible. The decision to call the police or not is yours to make and not everyone decides calling the police is right for them.
Speaker 4:Please watch this with kindness and thank you again for hearing this message.
Speaker 1:Elijah, what is your story? I just want to take just a moment, just to breathe for a second, because, first of all, just thank you again for your bravery, jacob. Um, stepping forward, um, and just for the audience's sake, uh, we're going to be transferring over to elijah's story now. Um, you know, there's a connection between these two brothers here and um, elijah, I just and Elijah, I just wanted to give you some space to talk and tell your story. So Mike's yours.
Speaker 3:I met Rose through an overlap with Jacob Me, Jacob and another trans brother of ours. We were actually hanging out for the first time. It was the first time that I had met Jacob and it was right after my hysterectomy. I really wasn't shouldn't have been working out, but I really wanted to meet him. I'd been following him for years and the other trans brother for years and I wanted to build in that community. I wanted coming from a military standpoint and just getting into the queer community. I'd been trans on my own for so long I was grasping at community.
Speaker 3:This was in 2019, towards the end of their relationship. We met up after our workout. Jacob said that he had to drop something off for her, for his girlfriend and I didn't know who his girlfriend was at the time and we went to a photo shoot for Tomboy X. I didn't know that's what it was, but I was amazed. It was the first time that I was seeing all these different queer bodies and different queer people. I was a little bit starstruck. I knew that.
Speaker 3:She came over to introduce herself and she was in a bra and underwear set for the photo shoot. She had hugged hugged jacob, she hugged skylar. Her hug for skylar was a little bit like more like leaned out. Um, and this is something that since then, in that moment, we all had feelings about and since then we've talked about too.
Speaker 3:That kind of showed pattern is when she came in to hug me, she really hugged me in a way that was like very obvious to everyone that was around and they were dating at that time. So I didn't really know how to react. I did think that she was pretty, but I was still very awkward. I had just started newly flirting with someone else who ended up being another one of my abusers in the long haul, but that was kind of the end of that moment. We were supposed to go out for dinner later that night, all of us together. I would find out later that they didn't because of an argument that surrounded me, you know, Jacob calling her in of like hey, you know what was that and her like denying it.
Speaker 4:A couple months would go by and there is an incident in community where I was being accused of harm um and that was a hard moment for me.
Speaker 3:Uh, I was terrified, yes, and I didn't know all of. I wasn't being told at first who I was being accused by or who I was being accused of. I was just being told that I was this thing and then later people would start popping out the woodworks, some people that I that I never would have expected. But I showed up in community. A restorative plan was asked of me.
Speaker 3:Though I did not agree with all of the terms on my restorative justice, I did give the ones that I could. The only one that I didn't give was delete my social media, but I did stay away from community spaces. I did give the respect to not talk to my accused, to not be in spaces with my accused to de-platform from sponsorships, to de-platform from community. It was kind of thrust upon me in a way that there wasn't really healing space to be had. So I was in my own vulnerable sense of really trying to hold community, because the things and the accusers that I was being accused of were the same people that had done that harm to me. But when I was told that I was the one doing the harm, I immediately reflected in of like it broke me and she came out of nowhere and she immediately came with I don't believe I see you and she came as a friend in a time where I really needed her. She comes with the positive affirmations and the safety Most Trojan horses do.
Speaker 3:She gave me affection and safety where I did not have it before. She was still dating another trans guy before me, so this is a pattern of behavior from one trans mask to another trans mask. Yeah, she was at the end of a relationship with a trans guy before me when they broke up. I was her crying shoulder, and when they broke, up, I was her crying shoulder where she had come.
Speaker 3:I had known about an ex from her past, a cis man. I had known about a couple of people from her past that were just not on the same wavelength as her as far as affection and relationship and intimacy and what that could look like. I'm a person that has very intimate friendships. I love being close with my friends, but that doesn't mean that I have to have sex with them. Yeah, where she did not fully grasp that understanding, the lines are blurred Her and that ex had broke up a week two weeks, so there's no crossover time as well, mm-mm.
Speaker 3:She had just gotten her billboard in New York. It was her first billboard for Folks Health and I was hyping her up and I told her she should go see it Like. Go with someone that you trust, go see it. Like. This is a moment that you shouldn't miss out on. You know, this is your moment. This is before I knew about the Jacob stuff. She asked if I was willing to go and I told her at the time I'd have to look into it. But I was just coming back into stability after being outcasted from community. She offered to pay for me so I flew down to Arizona and then we would fly to New York, other than seeing Rose in person at that photo shoot. I had never seen Rose in person, one-on-one before and that moment was like five minutes. We dropped off our stuff, hugged, said hi, took a picture and left.
Speaker 1:But she paid to flow you down and see you. Do you feel like that was intentional, with that pattern of behavior in hindsight with what you now know.
Speaker 3:Before I went down there she had told me about the Airbnb situation and she told me that it would be a one bed and if I was comfortable with that and I said you know we're adults like it's going to be cheaper, it's New York, this is a last minute trip. Like you don't spend a whole lot of money trying to do extra stuff. You know we're going to be out adventuring. Most of the time I wasn't even thinking. I was like this girl just got out of a breakup. I'm the person she's crying to about this breakup.
Speaker 1:They're trans as well. There's this expectation of safety with family.
Speaker 3:I had not had that much experience in the trans dating culture. I came from a military background and I had only dated cis girls and one a mab non-binary person at that point and that that relationship was toxic and controlling and abusive. Um, and coming out of that with Rose it felt so different, so loving, so safe. The femininity brought a sense of safety with it, almost, dare I say, a mommy feel to it, and she knows that and gender affirming.
Speaker 1:I'm just hearing the two of your stories right now. It seems like there's a pattern of almost like overt sexuality to make you feel that vibrato as a trans mask guy which you know, we've got egos to ourselves and it's almost like it's targeted. But that's just what I'm hearing so far. From my viewpoint here, I we were.
Speaker 3:I flew down to arizona. We were going to be there for one night and then, literally the next morning, catch the flight to new york. In my mind and in my I was going as her friend.
Speaker 1:You guys weren't dating or mentioning any of that yet, right?
Speaker 3:We were friendly flirting, which is what she uses later.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm a flirtatious person. I flirt with everybody. I flirt with this guy. He's a good looking guy but we were friendly flirting. She picks me up from the airport and she gives me that same hug from the photo shoot, tight and embracing. But at this point it feels like more instead of this randomness, because you know you can tell when somebody hugs you? Yeah, there was likability behind it. We get back to her house. At the time she's living with her parents.
Speaker 1:Immediately my first time hanging out with her. I'm meeting her mom, her dad, her siblings, her little sister.
Speaker 3:That's rather fast for barely meeting someone. Okay, sorry, go on. She takes me out to the backyard where they have a pool. I am a big water person, I love it. And she's like backyard where they have a pool. I am a big water person, I love it. And she's like we can go for a swim. We go, put our suits on, we go out to the backyard. There is a sliding door between me and her parents and her sister's room looks down at the pool. We are swimming around and we're joking and we're flirting and she starts getting grabby and I try to like, jokingly, reflect it and she's just like if I swim to a place, she swims to a place. And this is the part that kills me, because this is where she turns it on me. There was a point in the pool where she was being so grabby that I swam out of my swim trunks.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:To try to like.
Speaker 1:Get away.
Speaker 3:And she sees it as this flirting moment of I was asking for it, I wanted it.
Speaker 4:How were you feeling in that?
Speaker 3:moment. Her parents were right there. I had. I come from a family, familial thing. I have family trauma. I have the quiet, don't say anything. They're just in the other room.
Speaker 3:What Jacob was saying is, when you come from previous harm, that fight or flight to just this isn't my, this wasn't my area, this isn't my home. I she paid for me to get here. I don't have a way to get back home. These are your parents and I am a black trans man. These are your parents and I am a black trans man. So I go along with it and I think we're just going to like play around in the pool and she I have my back to the wall of the pool and she gets naked and she starts going and I'm, I'm just not there. My mind is thinking about any second her parents could come through those doors or her sister could be looking down and if I do anything, then I come off as the aggressive and I just came out of a situation of being accused of harm so you're in a rock and a hard place then so I just go with.
Speaker 3:And then we get out of the pool and she proceeds to continue on the beach chair out of the pool, right outside of her family pool.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry, Aisha.
Speaker 3:I have to go back in that house and face her parents and face her parents. I am in fight or flight at this moment Of presentability. So now I've jumped into boyfriend role. We go up to her bed for the night. She does it again, so much that her mom has to text her from the other room to be quiet. The next morning, before our flight, I woke up early. I wake up early. I was uncomfortable so I barely slept. I came downstairs and her dad's eating Cheerios and it's like this whole moment of like what's your?
Speaker 3:you know, let's talk about the elephant in the room and I didn't even know if he knew. Does he know? Does he not know? Are we just not saying anything? I make a cup of tea for myself and then he's making coffee for his wife. So I make a cup of tea for Rose and I put it in a room and I leave it there and I come downstairs and I eat Cheerios with him where he's proceeding to. You know, ask me the dad questions. And now I have to show up as this person with good intentions.
Speaker 1:You're a person to that position as well.
Speaker 3:You're a first into that position as well. We go to New York and I am her built-in boyfriend. We are going to events her events, we meet my brother. She introduces herself as my partner. We go to events where she's introducing herself as my partner. But she's so caring and loving and in New York the sex was so aggressive and it was aggressive on my part too. And I do want to state this because it is important that in moments where you do not always feel control as a survivor, there is ways where you use aggression in your sex to get to feel like you are making some type of a point that you don't want to be there. For me it was marks. She took it as a fun game that she get to mark me and I get to mark her, but for me it was me biting into you to let you know that I did not want. And how could someone go through that much pain and still want it In a way that wasn't consensual? We did not have a designated kink dynamic. There was never a consenting conversation.
Speaker 3:There was never contracts or boundaries or safe words. There was play it by ear and hope for the best. But you're dominant and submissive. I'm dominant and submissive and I want to assert my power and I also want power asserted on me when I want it, within my confines. But when it's on you and if you dismiss it, it's to say that you're transphobic.
Speaker 4:It's like a power dynamic of control. I'm hearing within both of your stories.
Speaker 1:It's like an exploited situation, it's like a pocket of nuance.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to take up space, but I need to address this with you because you and I have had this conversation. So I have had a conversation privately with Rose and this conversation around the sex tape. Now for the past few years you've been very consistent with your story, but apparently on the other side of this, this is being weaponized against you. What do you have to say to that?
Speaker 3:I've talked about this very openly from the beginning, because I cannot dodge accountability if I'm asking for it. I have never, not once, said that I did send the video, but I do say, if we're going to say the story, then we're going to say the facts and not your one-sided perceptions. I did send that video, but I want to talk about the video as it stands. The contents of that video is me bent over. While Rose Montoya sodomizes me for the first time to take a virginity that I had left because she wanted to be the first, even though that it was an open thing that I publicly, privately, to my friends, to my family, to everyone, to her multiple times said that I did not want and if anyone was ever going to get it, they were going to have to pay for it. It hurts. I'm going to get a coin. She didn't like that. She didn't like that. I didn't trust her enough to give it to her that she couldn't be the first. She loved anal, but I did not love it. I did not like it. I have not done it since, after after I was really good about that boundary, up until February of 2020, when my best friend and three of my god, kids passed in a car accident and I was a shell of a human and I could not live up to her sexual appetite like I usually could.
Speaker 3:Two weeks after I put them in the ground, I flew to Arizona to pack up her house, drive her to LA, set up her apartment that she now lives in and that same night walk her on the red carpets of the Queerty Awards where she was nominated as this great influence, where she would take me home and take me because what a celebratory day for her after I had just put kids in the ground. And as soon as she came to LA, it was about her. That's when it got worse. That's when the coercing for the video.
Speaker 3:If I gave her a video of anal, she wouldn't have to ask for it all the time. I just got to do it. I don't want to. She won't have to ask for it all the time. I just got to do it. She won't have to ask so much. So I got myself hype. I told myself I wanted it enough for her not to ask and I did. And she took me in a house with my roommates, in my room on my bed, and she videotaped me, bent over, spread out, and the only thing in that video of her that you can see is the side of her leg and a tattoo. That video is me Doing something that I swore I would never give to anybody, because it was the last thing that was still mine.
Speaker 1:So sorry, elisha, you have been consistent with this for two years.
Speaker 4:And let me explain why I'm saying this Because I've listened to you for two years, be consistent and share your story. And the fact of the matter is we had her here on this couch and I had to call you to tell you as my friend, you know she's coming to this couch because I care, like you can't talk to somebody about this for two years and not tell them that the person that you're talking about like what kind of loyalty to a friend? And you know, because I had to defend you as a trans man to her. I had to defend the both of you to her. She, rose Montoya.
Speaker 4:Let me tell you something you have caused a lot of harm and pain. I better not ever hear you say the names of black trans women. I don't want to hear you say the names of trans men, especially that you've harmed, because you deserve the consequences that have been brought upon you. And I say this for my opinion, because every day I watched, I listened to you and I saw the hurt and the pain in your eyes. And there's so much that is not being said here today, like we don't even have the time, but I want you to know. I believe you 100% because with my experience with Rose as a trans woman although I was not romantically involved with her I understand how she weaponizes consent. I understand how she is a narcissist. I understand how she utilizes control, wanting to control a narrative. It wasn't until I stepped in for you that that was blocked because she was going to come for you and I was not going to allow that.
Speaker 4:Rose filmed an episode with us. It was a healing conversation. We did not bring up y'all's situation or whatnot. This was strictly about the White House. Rose verbally consented to the episode and then she did a complete 360. When we finished production she sent us a message or whatever, and she felt like what did she say? She felt like she was blindsided.
Speaker 1:She tried to accuse us that she said she, you know, disassociated during the filming, that she said she, you know, disassociated during the filming Meanwhile. I mean, I got to tell you from the filming perspective, from my perspective, when we left the set that day, I was actually really proud of us that we had that conversation with her, absolutely Because she, it felt like it was accountability. Actually I was able to, directly in the seat that you're sitting in right now, have a conversation about the White House and how it did not land well and she heard me, or at least it felt like she heard me. But I now through what I've learned, because I didn't know all of this. When I set up the episode For me, I saw a conversation to be had about the White House, especially because transmasc individuals are harmed, and I am always hard about protecting transmasc individuals and I wanted to bring Rose in to have that conversation for a healing moment.
Speaker 4:and I didn't, and I and, to be fair, I didn't say anything to you because I felt like that was your story to share and that and I had to protect you in that, in that moment, because you weren't ready, that had not come out yet, and so the thing was I do Go ahead, but I do want to continue, but I just want to make sure that I acknowledge that about you. Yeah, and so I want you to go ahead and finish your story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's get back to the video, because I don't want this weaponized, because this is where she has us. She picks the one thing that she can weaponize us.
Speaker 4:I agree.
Speaker 3:After the video, we went on with our lives. I went in through this phase where I was like pro-anal, trying to convince myself that it was my choice, that I really did want it, and I really am into this now and like how I'm just I'm just learning my progressiveness and I need to. You know, everyone's doing anal. It's not, it's not that big of a thing, um, and it was like something I would try to give to her as like sentence To show my worthiness.
Speaker 3:This is where timeline gets fuzzy. I don't remember exactly how long it was after the video was filmed. It was a night. I was also I have been an SW and I made OnlyFans content for Jacob the same thing for at that time, for survival reasons, because I wasn't working and I had just moved and I had just paid for a funeral. So I was in survival and I just moved in with roommates where I have to be accountable, because I didn't want to put their situations at risk. I was having a conversation with a person on OnlyFans asking for an anal video and I didn't have one.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I told him many times it's not content that I do, it's not content that I have. He asked for partnered stuff. I told him it's not stuff that I do, it's not stuff that I had. Then he was just asking for prices and there was a moment where I was considering because of my survival. I was like this could pay my bill right now, but I didn't. Instead I negotiated down to a screenshot.
Speaker 3:There's a part of the film where I'm just bent over holding myself open and she's not in it at all and I screen grabbed that and I went on OnlyFans and I tried to send it to him and I sent it for $35. My dignity at that point for me was worth $35. And I sent it and I went in it and I was hanging out with my roommates and about 15-20 minutes later it couldn't have been that long I got a call from her and she said did you just send our sex tape? And I said no, what are you talking about? And then she sends me a screenshot of someone coming to her saying that I sent them. So I immediately go to my OnlyFans and I saw that I sent the video and not the screen grab, and I immediately deleted the video and logged out of OnlyFans and I didn't put up new content until we had had conversation. We both freaked out Because I had just exposed myself to some. I exposed a video not only that she did not consent to, but that I didn't fully understand or consent to, that someone saw a moment that I'm still trying to come to terms with just happened. I'm freaking out, she's freaking out over the phone. She's in LA and I'm in Vegas and I tell her whatever she you know whatever she chooses to do, I will respect. And she says I need to cool down for tonight and continues to berate me for another hour as I'm walking around the neighborhood freaking out. We finally get to a stopping point and the next morning we kind of talk and she tells me that she's okay and it was an accident, it was a mistake, you didn't mean it, we're going to work through it. And I'm like okay, what do you? You know, what do you need from me?
Speaker 3:The next day, my roommate's going up to LA and I asked if I can write up so that me and Rose can have an in-person conversation and, to be honest, I thought that was going to be our breakup. I was preparing for that to be our breakup. To be honest, I thought that was going to be our breakup. I was preparing for that to be our breakup. And we get to her house and I sit across the room on the little couch that she has and she's on the bed and she's, like you can see, she's annoyed with me and she asked me why am I sitting over there?
Speaker 3:And I said because I'm scared. I just broke your trust. And she has me come over to the bed and her brother's home and I know he's not happy with me in this moment and she starts kissing on me. At first it's like innocent, it's like kissing the top of my head when she's holding me, and then she eventually pulls my chin up to look at her and kisses me and keeps kissing me and then we end up having sex. And I gave it to her because I did this thing and I need to just be on my best behavior.
Speaker 1:So she almost weaponized that fenced you to abuse you further then.
Speaker 3:And the next day I went home and I thought we were going to be okay. I really did. But then it was the daily calls of berating and how could you? And for $35, really, I'm worth more than that. And I would try to tell her I didn't do it on purpose. And I guess the guy that went to her is saying, yeah, he did do it on purpose, he wanted to sell me your car, and that's how she's weaponizing it and that's how she's weaponizing it.
Speaker 3:One of her asks was that I deplatform from OnlyFans, and I have, and still to this day I have not gone back, because I do acknowledge that I did do the mistake. I didn't double check, I didn't verify and I said something that not only ruined her trust with herself but my trust with myself. And yet it was to one person, but the amount of people that know about that tape. Now, because of her mouth, she has decided to tell people what the tape is, who's in it, what we're doing. She told and I have permission to say these names but she told Caden at the White House, which is why the White House was so triggering, because the same time that I found out that you were talking shit about me is the same time that I find out that you make national news, and I can't even hold you accountable because you're in the water for something so much deeper right now, and hold you accountable because you're in the water for something so much deeper right now.
Speaker 3:After I leaked the video, we stayed together for another month. In that month, we stayed together because it was her birthday and I went to LA when this is when I was supposed to meet Blossom for her birthday and we scheduled that she had VIP treatment at a WeHo club and that she went to a five. I couldn't afford it, but we went to a five-star dinner with her and her friends and we paid for it and I dressed her room up to the nines because she deserved it. That's the Stockholm.
Speaker 1:That's the Stockholm.
Speaker 3:Because I made the mistake. So everything that she had done prior, it didn't matter how many knows that I had. I made the mistake, I did the thing can I interject on the mistake?
Speaker 1:because just from what I'm seeing and hearing from the two of you, especially with the video, um, it sounds like it's a technical glitch that happened there. First of all, I mean, if, granted, there's more conversation that we can have about, you know, porn and consent, especially with a partner that's not consenting but there's also a nuance here about how victims and survivors have what is called reactive abuse, and reactive abuse can really happen when you've been pressured so hard, so hard, so hard and so much harm has come that eventually you may act out of character, you may make mistakes, you may say you know things you would regret, do things you'd regret. But it's almost and it's actually by design by the perpetrator for you to then do that and then later on weaponize that so that they're never held accountable. And just from hearing the two of your stories and from our experience that we had filming, it seems like a pattern of behavior with this individual and I.
Speaker 1:I platonically and romantically yeah, and I want to commend the both of you for really wanting to take the accountability and the responsibility for your energy in the space. But I also want the nuance to have the conversation of when survivors are in survivor mode in the way that they were. It can cause some things to go wrong. It can cause some decisions. You know, the lack of sleep, the lack of food, all of those things to an average human you can't even. I mean people have to call off their job if they don't sleep.
Speaker 1:I want to make sure that grace is given to the both of you because it's important that you guys get some grace in this space and I just I really want to commend how you're having this conversation in a way that you really, from my understanding from both of your content, you really want accountability. You don't want harm to come to Rose, because I think the two of you from our private conversations really experienced a lot of harm within community while traveling through a lot of this experience that the both of you navigated.
Speaker 4:And, to be clear, you both publicly have said that on your platforms. You both have publicly said we don't want to harm Rose, we just want to call her in and have a private conversation.
Speaker 3:When that all went down, we had a therapist. I reached out to a black femme, non-binary sex positive sex educated, kink, polyamorous, educated therapist, peer advocate therapist to help us with this problem Actually, a couple and we went to a couple sessions and even that therapist, peer guided, was still like you're fighting the issue, you're not fighting each other. There was never a lack of me not saying that I did it and that's the problem is that's the people pleaser. It was always a lack of her being able to lighten up on the berating and the, the abuse to to match up with it. Um, I absolutely believe in enough pressure. You do make mistakes.
Speaker 3:Yes, I, we're all human, honestly, and I blatantly honestly, transparently, uh, said that because I wanted to. I want to show how much of a slippery slide it is in the humanity to cause harm. Even if you've been harmed, you can be a survivor and still cause harm, and if we don't talk about the patterns of that, it doesn't, the actual solution doesn't happen. All of that to be said is towards the end of our breakup. There was many times in which she wanted or threatened or put up the possibility of breaking up, where I'd even leaned into it at a point and she got mad at the leaning into it because I couldn't keep up.
Speaker 3:It wasn't until she took away autonomy of me, saying that she didn't trust my autonomy in dating. So any potential partners that I was speaking to or partners that I had, other than my platonic partner, but any sexual thing outside of her she did not condone or allow. But she could. She could date others, and it wasn't until she found another trans man to date literally right after me. It was the same day that she told me they went on a date and she decided that they were going to date and then it was like two days after that she ended up finally pulling the plug with me.
Speaker 1:This is control and a perpetual situation with multiple people. At this point and, honestly, with the experience that we had and the narrative that was flipped, which I was even just shocked how she was able to pull something out of the narrative and be upset about I just want to commend the both of you for having this conversation and I want to really give you an opportunity to actually, if you're comfortable and confident, to actually speak directly to Rose.
Speaker 4:Speak directly to the camera and let her know what you have to say.
Speaker 1:Or any other trans brothers that are survivors as well, you know, because you two are going to be thrust into a space that's really we don't know how many people has this really been affected, and it's going to really bring some stories forward and start some conversations, and so if you have any advice, um, jacob, do you mind if I pass it to you first? Or, elijah, do you want to go first? Who do you?
Speaker 2:um rose after listening to Elijah and I. Right now I'm really wondering what you're thinking, and I've been wondering what you're thinking for about for five years now, but more in particular the last three weeks, because I haven't really heard anything we can't control.
Speaker 2:If that's how you decide over the last three weeks because I haven't really heard anything we can't control if that's how you decide to deal with this for the rest of your life, I don't think that that's the most productive way. You know in general. We're human. We all make mistakes. I definitely wasn't my best self to you when you started abusing me. I was cold, I was rude to you, I was short, like I was not the nice, warm, loving person that I am, and I'm not happy with the way I treated you, but I also I don't really feel bad because of what you were doing and you tried to use that as me being an abuser.
Speaker 2:You admitted to violating me and forcing yourself on me and you know that I never did anything like that to you and you admitted to what you did to me. So for my own personal healing and peace, I don't need to hear the words again. But here's the thing. That's why I stayed silent. It's because you told me that you would get help. You told me that you did it and that you felt awful or horrible and that you were going to get professional help. You're going to speak to someone for professional help. So I had no reason to think otherwise. I was still under your spell.
Speaker 2:So you put me in this position Because I've reached out over the years and I reminded you of what you did and you still didn't stop doing what you do. So I don't feel bad having to say all this publicly because I don't know how else to reach out to you. You need help, you need to stop doing this and you need to make amends for what you've done, because you've hurt people after me. All right, Like so, Elijah, would you like to speak?
Speaker 3:I used to think about what you were thinking about, rose, and it took me a really long time to not care, because if I cared about what you thought about, I wouldn't be able to sit here, because I pedestaled you so hard for my care and love for you and the humanity that I kept for you, which is what kept me silent. I knew your hurt. I knew your story. I stayed silent for that humanity and the fact that you were doing work in the community and I believed that and I believed in humanity and I still do. You don't get to take that from me or my ability to love and be joyful and still have healthy relationships with people, with intimacy and touch. That doesn't have to lead to coercion doesn't have to lead to coercion. It is not that my boundaries weren't strong enough or that I lacked boundaries. It's that you did not respect my no in the beginning. You made it playful. You made my consent objective and the fact that you can look at that and defend it shows more about your character than it does ours.
Speaker 3:The fact that there is multiple of us speaking out, the fact that there is community leaders asking you to speak up, and your action to that was to delete your page for a couple days, completely delete anything that looked suspicious and rebrand shows more of your character than it does ourselves.
Speaker 3:So I need you to understand that if you're doing this out of the fear of your platform or your, your celebrity, we're not asking to take those from you. We are asking you to just come to a conversation to hear what we've experienced with you. That's it, your experience. Just like you had a public platform to talk about your experience for us when you made videos about comparing trans bodies and our abilities to make you come, or your fetishization with trans anatomy and your ability to pleasure it. But you don't. You scare and coerce it and we're not just because we're the only two on this couch willing to put our faces to the brunt of it does not mean that we are the only two who have experienced it, and you know that. So we ask you to just think, because I don't want you handed over to conservatives and I don't want you to become a Blair White, and as much as you don't deserve it from my mouth, I still do believe in you and your ability to be a human being and I really hope I'm not wrong.
Speaker 4:Elijah Jacob. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We know this is not the entire story. We encourage you to continue to share your story.
Speaker 1:And other podcasts and other leaders and other social media influencers to actually have these conversations and the nuance, because transmasc individuals unfortunately live in an invisible space and experience harm in horrendous ways and we have to navigate the nuance of it all because of the toxic masculinity and the misogyny and misandry combined together and you know, with the intersectionalities, that even you live Elijah as a black trans man that even becomes more compounded with Rose's.
Speaker 1:You know Elijah as a black trans man that even becomes more compounded with Rose's.
Speaker 1:You know platform and I just I hope the two of you can get more healing time from being in this space and being around brothers and the brothers that have come to you, because I'm sure that there are brothers in both of your inboxes, because both our inboxes have been tapped because of the two of you, because of this conversation, and it's so important for us to really dive into this nuance because I don't want this to turn over to the conservatives either. I also was aware that Buck Angel reached out to the two of you and I want to say To rage bait. Thank you for trusting us with this conversation, because we are here to hold our community accountable, as much as folks try to say we're left-leaning or right-leaning or whatever-leaning. I personally, myself, I'm neutral. At the end of the day, if there's somebody in community doing wrong, it needs to be called out in a way that is educational and healing for especially the survivors of those individuals, and I just want to thank the two of you.
Speaker 4:And again, can I add on to that right?
Speaker 1:quick.
Speaker 4:Sometimes, when we call in, it's okay to call out, and Rose was one of those type of people that needed to be called out. And, as another trans woman, as a black trans woman, I need to call you out because we have a responsibility as trans women to stand in solidarity with our brothers. So, here today, when I said certain things, it's because, trans women, we need to be stepping up and we need to be doing better, we need to be holding ourselves accountable, and so, with that being said, thank y'all so much. Remember, if you're new to this channel, make sure you hit the subscribe button down below, so that way you'll know when we post new videos. Take a little time to enjoy the Transparency Podcast show.
