Trans Masculinity, Authentic Expression, and the Journey of Self-Discovery in Music

The clip episode highlights the courageous journey of trans men in reclaiming visibility and identity in a society that often overlooks them. 

Through personal stories, our guests discuss the significance of artistic expression, community support, and self-love in navigating their truths.

• Discussing the struggle for trans masculinity visibility 
• Emphasizing the importance of historical representation 
• Sharing personal growth through embracing authenticity 
• Exploring societal expectations of masculinity 
• Analyzing the impact of social media on identity 
• Discussing the role of art in expressing trans narratives 
• Reflecting on the support fostered within the community 
• Highlighting the complex nature of gender identity 
• Celebrating the journeys of self-acceptance and love

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Chapters

• 0:00 Building Visibility and Representation in Music
• 3:33 Embracing Authenticity Through Art
• 9:06 Social Media Guide for Trans Men

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

That was the one thing that I noticed about you right away is you didn't just like copy and paste what you heard, like it wasn't like I was listening to a YouTube video. It was clear that you would take the music that you had, even if it was a cover song, and you made it your own. And I was like, oh, we've got an artist here. And that's why I literally told John and Gina about you.

Speaker 1: 0:27

I was like this kid right here, like you know, and I've been so excited, just like watching your career grow and the ways that it has, because, like trans men, we don't like we, we don't have a lot we really don't like. We don't have this uh, generational thing that goes back to the 70s where we can be like, oh, there was a group of trans men that got together and did things. It may have happened, but it didn't get recorded right. No one said anything, or it got erased, or it said it was a lesbian or whatever you know, because the patriarchy doesn't like to recognize us as people constantly and it's it's it's so challenging for us to to get our history down so that we can actually make progress.

Speaker 2: 1:03

I've been so sick of that for so long and like I've been guilty of like complaining about, you know, not not experiencing like visibility in the same way as other folks in our community felt jealous of, like trans femmes who have more representation and all of that.

Speaker 2: 1:25

And at a certain point I got so sick and tired of being sick and tired and realized like if I want that to change, like I should probably do something about it. And I know that like there's privilege in that, because I'm like blessed to have been given like the privilege of wanting to be visible, you know, and that, I think, is something to hold very dearly and cherish, because I know a lot of folks don't want to have a platform and that's like totally okay too, and you're allowed to complain about trans mask visibility even if you don't want to have a platform. I just did want, I wanted the attention and I was like complaining. So I was like you know what? I should probably do something about this. And yeah, like you're right, like we don't have the same history to like fall back on, to be like oh'm inspired by this group of guys well we do, though.

Speaker 1: 2:26

I mean that's partly why I wrote my book. The thing is is like it's a lot of the things that I learned through hearsay or research or just gathering things up. I was like, wait a second. Like even just the little knowledge that I have of LA and the history that I know of trans mask folks, like we've got a really rich history. But again it goes back to even how women's sports are treated and trans men in sports. It's that Reaganomics of like. If women are treated badly in this world, unfortunately, the Reaganomics it's going to trickle down to trans men.

Speaker 1: 2:57

That's how the patriarchy works. We can't escape it. Even if there's privilege that comes with. Like you and I, we can walk into a store. Nobody has a clue allegedly you know who we are, unless they follow us on Instagram. You know, make sure to follow as well, cause if you don't buy a shirt and follow today again, we're not friends. Listen, I am the biggest hype man and you know you are. You're so good at it, you're so good. But like looking at how we can really cultivate and and and share our privilege and take that and kind of transmute it and make more spaces and kick doors open for folks to also create more conversations.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Because no, because even myself, like I came out on the Jubilee thing that like I don't take testosterone, a lot of people were like, oh my God, shane doesn't take testosterone. Yeah, I personally didn't want to take testosterone, because there's a part of me that's not necessarily non-binary, because I still see myself as binary as they come. I live in that. That's where I'm comfortable. But I also like having access to crying. I like certain things that come with access to estrogen. First of all, the skin is on fleek. Okay, your skin is beautiful, right?

Speaker 1: 4:10

I'm almost 40 years old and I, you know, come on now, you look great. Wait. So you were auntie and then you stopped. Yeah, I took it for a short period of time because for me again, the aesthetics but I have a full ass beard. Listen, rogaine was also involved. I will admit there's some Rogaine there.

Speaker 2: 4:20

That's incredible yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:21

But it's like it's things like that, that creating new spaces and conversations. I mean, like how you talk about pussy boy, like how you, confidently, because like even myself I felt some shame in it, you know, I'm like, oh God, like let's see, like I don't want to acknowledge it, but when I see like you just like out on the beach and you're like pussy boy, and it's like it actually invigorates me and it inspires me back, like your art physically has an effect on me personally and, I'm sure, clearly a bunch of folks with all the TikTok followers, because I love to see you grow that way.

Speaker 2: 4:54

Yeah, I mean, what happened when I launched it all was like, okay, I took this risk right, like I knew that it was going to be super controversial, I knew that I was going to lose followers, and I did by the thousands. Because at one point my Instagram was very like I'm a trans man, I'm binary and like I'm just like you. And then all of a sudden it was like, okay, like he's a little fruity, okay, he's a little like. Oh, he's not as masculine as I thought he was. Oh, now he's talking. So now I realize he's like very femme, okay. And then I was like pussy and it was like, all of a sudden, just this avalanche of people, just like you know.

Speaker 1: 5:38

DMing me being like I thought this was a safe space for trans men.

Speaker 2: 5:39

You were getting wholesome for a minute. There I was, yeah, I was.

Speaker 1: 5:41

You were growing, though you were learning yourself.

Speaker 2: 5:43

I didn't know. I didn't know what I wanted to be doing. I really didn't. I was just like I thought at one point I just was going to be a hot guy, a hot trans guy with no personality. That's what I wanted. I took that role for you. I couldn't go further with that because people knew that there was some fucking dorky shit underneath all the like handsome face, yeah. And once they saw through it they were like well, now I'm bored by this handsome face, I want to see you be a dork. Yeah, Like I'd prefer that and I'm like, honestly, me too.

Speaker 1: 6:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Yeah, it's you. Handsome people are really boring. They kind of are.

Speaker 1: 6:32

Like I'd rather I just go to Costco. I'm boring.

Speaker 2: 6:33

Not me calling myself handsome. Listen, it's 2024.

Speaker 1: 6:34

I'm going to be confident because for many, many years I shit on myself. I barely just started liking myself, so at this point I'm just going to enjoy it.

Speaker 2: 6:40

I'm so proud of you and I'm so glad you're calling yourself handsome. I think we should call ourselves handsome allegedly Sorry, that's my favorite word. I know you love saying that. I love allegedly well, okay, it's what keeps from getting sued. So sued for calling yourself handsome. Um, yeah, I just like.

Speaker 2: 7:01

Once I started launching the whole pussy boy thing it was, it was very much like a risk to take, but then once I started receiving like what, what happens when you change your content is you lose thousands of followers and then you gain your actual audience. And that's what is exciting. Because, like, it's so scary to change what you're doing, because you're like scared that you're not going to have the success that you maybe are experiencing in the moment, and then, all of a sudden, the people find you that are actually in alignment with who you are and actually love your art and who, like it's just, it's such a good experience because then the support is real and genuine and not like this, like, oh, I have to keep up this image. Yeah, you don't have to think as much. Yeah, because they like you A hundred percent. You know A hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Yeah, you don't have to think as much. Yeah, because they like you 100%. You know 100%. And so when they came back, and it was the right people now my followers and I have a relationship that we've built based on, like this empowering phrase of like I'm a pussy boy and like I'm not healed yet yeah, you know. Like I'm not claiming to be anywhere oh my God look. Yeah, that's my stuff. So I screen print each shirt by hand. You know, each order is created by me and packaged by me. Yeah, because I'm not a store.

Speaker 1: 8:27

I'm a man. That means that you touch every shirt.

Speaker 2: 8:29

I touch every shirt, are you?

Speaker 1: 8:30

charging enough for these shirts? Probably not Okay. You need to charge more If you're DNA on them. They're $35. You know what I mean? I'm just saying we can get like a little surplus, you know. I know I should probably An extra $30 just for the sweat.

Speaker 2: 8:44

I'll do an add-on Like I'll wear it for a day and like, if that's an extra 20 bucks or something if I wear it and sweat in it.

Speaker 1: 8:53

I don't know, I love it.

Speaker 2: 8:53

We'll see. I love it, but yeah, so I feel like you know the relationship that I have with my following is I'm not like on a pedestal.

Speaker 1: 9:03

You're yourself 100%.

Speaker 2: 9:05

That's why.

Speaker 1: 9:05

I love TikTok. Honestly, I avoided social media, like you saw me for years and years and years as somebody in community, but I didn't quite like do social media.

Speaker 2: 9:14

Right, because I was like activism, you're a little mysterious.

Speaker 1: 9:16

I was mysterious.

Speaker 2: 9:17

Because, honestly.

Speaker 1: 9:19

A I grew up in Scientology so I was scared of like celebrities and all this shit you know. So there's that. B I was more interested in like the activism and also learning a lot and just kind of shutting the fuck up because it's like I'm still a white man, even if I am a trans man, and I had a lot of things I wanted to learn. Before I got in front of a camera and said things I felt like I wanted to get myself educated and like what I can see through your work, it like all of us culminating together and getting on TikTok First of all. Tiktok loves trans men, which that was amazing to see. A social media platform that actually, like, validates us. Yeah, so many trans male influencer popped up because of TikTok.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Instagram, I hated because you had to be like this hot abs, whatever YouTube I got nervous because I didn't know what the hell to say. Half the time I was like I can't think of a subject and TikTok, like I could have have. Just, I was able to be like my silly, goofy self and like, even with you, like I've watched so much of your content and you are authentically yourself. You're your real self, like even on the dark days, like as some of the content you put out there was like really vulnerable and I think that it made a lot of your followers not feel alone and the authenticity, the combination with all of the things you've done, is just more reasons why I love you visibly as a trans mask person in media, because it means a lot to me to see somebody doing it right, doing it with intention, doing it with love and doing it with this idea of like I am, who the fuck I am and I'm proud of it. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Yeah, I mean, the thing that I can fully say with my whole chest is I love myself, I love myself, I love that and I'm like I am on my team. No matter if I feel depressed one day or if I feel shame about something like I'm, I'm with myself, feeling shame, like I'm not going to beat myself up for feeling any type of way at any moment, and that is a rule that I've stuck by for years now and I've learned that through being sober and like. I'm six and a half years sober and that journey has taught me so much about like how to raw dog life and like not love that raw dog life. I'm just raw dog in life, yeah, okay let's white knuckling like a roller coaster but it's like it's learned.

Speaker 2: 11:39

I've learned how to trust myself. I've learned how to to process feelings and cry on testosterone, which is Just takes a little bit of a Allegedly I couldn't.

Speaker 1: 11:50

I just it never worked for me. I was like I want to cry. I liked my shows.