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The Trans•Parency Podcast Show
In The Trans•Parency Podcast Show podcast, the host team, Shelbe Chang, Shane Ivan Nash, Jessie McGrath, and Bloosm C. Brown take you on a journey exploring the transformation stories, community dynamics, advocacy, entertainment, trans-owned businesses, and current events surrounding the lives of trans individuals.
Join us in enlightening conversations as we sit down with guests from the trans, LGBTQ+ community, and allies. Through powerful storytelling, they delve into their journeys, highlighting the trans people's transition from who they once were to their authentic selves. Also, this podcast uncovers individuals' experiences as allies who positively impact the trans community.
Our purpose-driven mission is to empower the trans community and uplift our voices, ensuring that we can be heard and beyond far and wide.
The Trans•Parency Podcast Show
Revolution Not Performance: How True Allyship Creates Lasting Change
Jackie Steele joins Shane and Blossom to discuss bisexual visibility, community leadership, and what it means to show up as a true ally during challenging times. Through personal stories and candid conversation, they explore the intersection of activism, self-care, and creating sustainable change for the LGBTQ+ community.
Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms: https://bit.ly/3wOecFr
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This is the Transparency Podcast Show.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Transparency Podcast Show. My name is Shane Ivan Nash and I'm with my favorite host, the Most my best friend in the world. Yes, we are on the air. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah, we're doing a casual open this time. You need to redo that Blossom Seabrook. No, I love this opening. I'm not even changing this. We're keeping it natural. I love it. It's messy and that's how it should be for jackie steel, the guests that we have today. Jackie, how the fuck are you?
Speaker 3:I'm okay, welcome to the transparency podcast show girl how do you like the set?
Speaker 1:it's gorgeous right.
Speaker 2:Can you believe trans people actually have this?
Speaker 1:I mean, here for, oh my god, yeah, this is what we're gonna show america.
Speaker 3:You're welcome yeah, oh, ps. Make sure you hit the subscribe button down below, so that way you'll know when we post new videos.
Speaker 2:Down below, hit that little button, hit the like button and then go ahead and put your comment of hate. It also still helps with the metrics for us and we still get paid on it because we are monetized as a YouTube channel. And thank you, blossom, for the work we do together to make it happen, to make a coin together on that bullshit. Anyways, jackie, how the fuck are you doing today? Why are we here? What are we doing? What are we talking about? Because I'm ready for the cheese man, I'm ready for the shit. There's so much we could talk about. I don't even know what to talk about with you because I've known you for so long, but where the fuck what's?
Speaker 1:we doing is a great question. I think that is the question for every possible topic we could cover. So you know, look, I'm rested, I'm hydrated, I'm mostly minding my tiny ass business, but still up in these streets a little bit.
Speaker 3:So there's lots to share. Well, we are excited to see you, honey. Listen for you to be only four foot nine, or Eleven, eleven, eleven, let Eleven. Let me tell you something, y'all.
Speaker 2:I would have thought you were like a good 5'5".
Speaker 3:Let me tell you something about Jackie Steele. Jackie Steele has a mighty powerful voice. She does a lot of great work for the bisexual community and I want to open up by talking about that. What made you want to invest in the bisexual community?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, my focus is our whole community. I'm just the bi bitch, and so rarely there's a bi voice.
Speaker 2:Wait, you're gay.
Speaker 1:Oh, we should tell the people, we should tell them. It's for the children. We have to educate. This is an educational program. Yes, I'm a militant queer, not a militant yes. And among those militant queer letters, yes, we get that here.
Speaker 3:Yes, we have sound effects. We're ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you knew this yet, but we are ridiculous. There has never been a more appropriate sound effect for me. Yes, we're so glad you love it, thank you. I am bi, technically pansexual, but it falls under the bi umbrella, for those who don't know. So, uh, yeah, so I'm the bi bitch and I look, I only identify in that way because there's a kid somewhere, probably not very far from where we're sitting right now. That cannot do that, yeah, and so it's important for me to always take up space in that way. Other than that I'm a fully cooked dish.
Speaker 3:I don't fucking explain myself to me, yeah, because I'm not gonna lie like bi erasure is very real. It's a hundred percent real you are one of the people that I follow that really you're my bisexual, Like yeah. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Representation Right, Like when I think of a bisexual. I'm like Jackie steel.
Speaker 1:Yes exactly. Right, I'll take it Sure.
Speaker 2:It's better than some other because the representation that you have as well, I think the approach might even be part of the sexuality that you're, the way that you cause. You deal with both sexes very equally and I love that about your. I don't know about that, no no, no, no no. At least from what I see. I'm sure you're going to say but like? I mean in terms of like, when you're not so much an accountability, I'm more talking about when you're building folks up. Okay, yeah, so accountability is different.
Speaker 1:We know that's, that's, I know where you're going there but I'm talking about this man finishes statement and then I'll see how I react, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Let me mansplain to you it's my trans privilege. Okay, it's my trans right. I'm just living my, my dream as a mediocre white man and just getting a podcast. I'm doing everything that I'm supposed to do, because this is my goal.
Speaker 1:This is in my transition. I am.
Speaker 2:But what I will say is the way that you've approached activism in a healing way. I'm not saying cause I know you start fires, but people don't really talk about the ways you heal.
Speaker 3:Because what.
Speaker 2:I remember in a lot of the ways that I dealt with everything that I experienced. You were my anchor, like you were the person that I was able to send my little file to in case I needed to, in case somebody was going to disappear me because it was scary with the stuff we were dealing with. And you really, you like, I love this about you. You don't make me feel trans, you don't like. I don't know this is probably problematic, let me know but you make me feel like a cis man, but in a good way, like in a way that you see me as a man, treat me and respect my emotions, even call me out on some shit. Like god, you're such a fucking man. Um, yeah, duh, hello, I'm not. You're duding, I know, I know and I and I love how you genuine like because, because a lot of people look at you and be like, oh, you hate men, like, and I've never felt that way from you as a very fucking binary, fucking monster trucks kind of guy, like the way that you've approached our relationship. You've been like no, that's a fucking dude and that's a white dude and uh, but you still like love and cared for me when a lot of people in community, especially during that time, pretty much abandoned me. Like there, when a lot of people in community, especially during that time, pretty much abandoned me, like there was a lot that was going on during that assault and all of the stuff that we were doing with the city and all of that stuff and the police and this and that and you saw me for many, many, many, many, many years like fighting for everybody in the streets and always being that guy for everybody. And then when I turned around and I realized there was not that many people doing that for me, you were that person for me and I that's why I wanted to bring you on the podcast today is just to even tell people more about who Jackie Steele is, because of how much you mean to me as a human being, like your work.
Speaker 2:That happened. I mean I was telling Blossom a little bit about some of like the dark stuff that I was experiencing and I still not quite ready to fully talk about it. But like there were times where I didn't know and you knew like I could, I couldn't even form a sentence, like I was not making sense because of how overwhelmed I was getting messages and inundated with people that were telling me they were assaulted at this bar and that bar and this and that, and, and I was having to process it to the point where, when I was trying to explain things to you, I felt like I was crazy, because I was like what is happening? And you were able to like the one person to be like hey, I can see you're having a mental break, but I still see you and I support you in that space Because, like I, I fucking like.
Speaker 2:I mean when I was screaming, crying at the fucking podium in West Hollywood, like I knew I was losing my shit, but I also understood that I needed to do it because of the 20 years of all the messages that everybody was like and I felt like I was like a spearhead. But if I didn't have your support, jackie, like I don't know where I would be, what I'd be doing? Like the combination between like blossom you and then, especially like my wife, um, and big shout out to nicole like I, hey, girl, I, I am the man that I am today because of the women that I have in my life that are very powerful and I just I know this is such the longest intro for you, but I just really want people to set the tone for you because I've seen so many people character assassinate you as this man-hating lesbian fucking which they didn't even know you're bisexual?
Speaker 2:exactly, yeah, you're not. And and like, if anything, I've even seen you talk about men's mental health because even like some of the stuff that you've experienced with other men that you've supported when they've gone through stuff, and like you're an ally in a true sense, where you're not just a one-sided ally like we've seen some people do, then we've watched them make their mistakes and not to say we don't make mistakes, but like I just really appreciate how you have treated me equally and saw me when I was really vulnerable and stood for me as an ally and especially as a cis person, because what I was dealing with, like I they're still going to probably be a movie made after that shit, because it's like what the fuck understand, you know so that was my intro of how amazing you are.
Speaker 2:So what's your rebuttal?
Speaker 3:I have one too, but I'm gonna let y'all have that first I'd like to, I'd like to refute that I know I actually fucking hate, men yeah, I do that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for noting that on the record. No, first of all, what I like about that intro is that it just launches us right into community and like what we're here to do, right? So why are we here? This is why we're here. For me, this is like why we're here on an existence level, right, we're here to connect. We're here to build community, we're here to build family, and that family comes in all different shapes and forms and tones, and slices and dices and all that good stuff, right?
Speaker 1:But I think, number one, I am here for you always, anytime. You know you can hit that phone and she's answering, no matter what. That's just what it is, and I offer that to a lot of people. And I think answering the phone is the first step, and I think a lot of times, right, it's such a simple thing. Right, asking how you are answering the phone is the first step. And I think a lot of times, right, that's, that's just it sounds. It's such a simple thing, right, asking how you are answering the phone, showing up to the thing. It sounds simplistic, but I wish more people would take that step and do that thing.
Speaker 1:Right, you don't have to take someone else's trauma on. You don't have to internalize that there's ways that you can support people in trauma without having to bring yourself into it, or you know, and that's people are uncomfortable. People are uncomfortable for all kinds of reasons their own stuff, that they're not capable of taking that on or supporting you. Because people think, oh, in order to support this, I have to be a this and a that and a this expert. You got to be a human, you got to be a friend. You have to show up and you have to be kind. So, and for me, I think, the man-hating lesbian stuff you know it's delicious, I love it. I you know, if I can make a man cry before 8 am, I've won the day. I know. I was just speaking about this recently. We were talking about activism, we were talking about folks that speak out and you're both such strong, important voices.
Speaker 2:Allegedly.
Speaker 1:And living through your own experiences, sharing your own experiences, but also standing up for people that's not always reciprocated, that's not always received, that's not always celebrated, and we understand what that's like to show up and then sometimes not have folks show up for you, and that's a whole other level of self-care.
Speaker 3:And here's the thing talking about showing up. This is what I really love about you and don't hate me for telling this story, but you've always shown up for trans people. Because there was a certain commission in the city of West Hollywood that we will not name here that when it first came out I took issue with Like with one of the city council members. He ended up actually writing me a personal letter about the commission because Jackie sounded the alarm that there were not trans representation sitting at the table when this commission, which is supposed to be for all of us, was created. I took major issue with that and I was very vocal about it and I called pretty much for the commission to be dismantled.
Speaker 3:But I received a phone call from you one day and I thought you were going to call me about another event, a bisexual event that I was. I did a reading for this event and you were there. It was funny cause I was coming in and you were out. It was in Santa Monica. I thought you were calling me for that Cause. I think you were the one that got me hooked up with it.
Speaker 2:If I'm not mistaken, you got her hooked up with bisexuals.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but here's the thing, though. The conversation was, jackie was calling me in and pulling me to the side about my thoughts on the commission, and the thing was, when I listened to you, I thought, wow, this is what I want more people to do. If they take issue with something that I say, just call me in. If you are my friend and my supporter and you love me, call me in. And we actually had a very fruitful conversation, and I just want people to know that you are one of those people that stands up for trans rights while still holding the truth to the things that you stand with, and that's one thing I love. And we need more accomplices, because I don't like to use the word allies. Right, like you, and so you know, I think one question for me is how do you find rest and self-care in?
Speaker 3:all the things that you do. I really want to know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can I unpack that situation for just two shakes? Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, it's my responsibility as a CIS person to have that conversation and if I'm here to be in community with you, I wanted to understand what your thoughts were. I wanted to hear your thoughts directly myself. I didn't want other people telling me. I didn't want another CIS person telling me what you thought. I want to hear what you think, and I'm one of the most vocal people. So I'm like, if I'm taking a left turn, if I'm doing something wrong or that is not in alignment with what the community want, that's my responsibility to get sorted or to have a dialogue and see where we go. And so the this. I will say what it was.
Speaker 1:The Lesbian and Gay Advisory Board existed in the city of West Hollywood for about I mean well, now it's 30 years, but it had existed for decades and it was lesbian and gay. And when I got appointed, I was the first bisexual on that body and I said well, let me tell you what that means. We're all coming in where this is what we're going to do, moving forward. And so I, my mission was to make it an LGBTQ board. There was a transgender advisory board, not in in to supplant that body. In addition to so that board. That body could be focused on trans needs specifically and focus on the community and then this board, because they were talking about absolving yeah, they were talking about, but I didn't
Speaker 1:want them. Yeah, because they proposed for that. Yeah, get out of here. No, we need.
Speaker 2:That's why I think blossom had that it's because they told us they were going to dissolve because, I was pissed too. I was like what do you mean? You're dissolving? No, no, that's, that's not the move.
Speaker 1:And look, getting representation for the first time in decades doesn't mean you dissolve the representation when you already was struggling to receive so that and I that's why I fought to keep that body. But we did fight for the expansion to make sure that we had inclusion, because we're not having a conversation about this community without trans folks. That's. This is who's done the labor, this who, and I talk about our community and I'm like we often make it difficult for the people who literally spend their days putting food in the bellies of our community in need. You know, roofs over this, these are the things and clothes on people's backs. That's the real life stuff every single day that I know that we here do you do specifically, and it's that's what matters. So you know we don't need less of that, we need more In terms of rest. I took like a year off of the world, as I think you both know.
Speaker 2:Deleted all your social media.
Speaker 1:I took down my social media. I just shut down and I basically sent an email to a few select folks and a text, I think, in advance, that just said I'm going off the grid, I'm taking some time and I will let you know. I'm telling you I'm okay, I'll let you know if I'm not and also when I'm back, cause I just I need a beat from everything. Um, I had two brothers pass away last year. There was just a lot happening for me, thank you, and I, um, I needed some time and that was those were my third and fourth siblings, Plus my parents have already passed. So just a lot.
Speaker 1:It was like kind of the closing of the chapter of a lot of loss in my life, and so I needed that time and I took a lot. I stopped, I've been doing stand-up. I took a beat from that. I took a beat from activism. I'm still you know me and I still will take the call and do those things on a one-to-one level or kind of in community.
Speaker 1:But I wasn't forward-facing, I wasn't in these spaces or streets, and I spent a lot of time just watching horror movies with my dog. I just that's it. I hike, I watch horror movies with my dog. I'm spending a lot of time and, quite honestly, this entire period for me has been about and my what's in, like my line of sight is about breaking my own patterns. You know we can talk about all the shitty friends and bad relationships, but whether it's family, work, doesn't matter. What it is. You could say this relationship wasn't right for me, it was a job, all right, it was my family member, I got to deal with some stuff, but the reality is it's my job to look at my patterns. It's the most difficult thing to do to break your patterns, which is breaking parts of yourself that need it.
Speaker 2:But if you're going to love, if you're gonna be able to get rest, you have to take that I'm so fucking proud of you because you know you didn't used to say any of this shit because, like, this only happened, like jackie, like this last year. Because when I have known you, jackie, like every event it's always like jackie steals pinkies in it in some way shape or form and I'd I'd be like God damn, like what do you mean?
Speaker 2:you're doing this, you're doing that, you're doing this, you're doing that, you're doing this, and I love that you took the time to refocus yourself, and what I'm really proud to see you do is actually really prioritize yourself because, as an ally for community, I've seen you for many, many years and you and I talk about this a lot, and this is the reason why I built the podcast and started building my own stuff is because I was pouring into so many other people, um, and I wasn't pouring into myself, and I just I'm really proud of the fact to see that, a allegedly, I influenced you, allegedly, um, but b that you're, you're, you're taking care of yourself and actually setting boundaries, yeah, and not answering every single call which you don't have to. You know, um, it's beautiful that you have, but I think that I can sense a different energy coming from you. You know what I mean like it's, it's, it's, it's and it's not like it's, it's. I don't even know, that's, probably I don't, I'm not even religious, but it's like it's. It's like like it's I don't even know, I'm not even religious, but it feels like a godly energy. It feels like you're vibrating in a different tone right now. That is healthier for you than before, because before it felt like you're so tight, it's manic, when I was in your space, and now, like this energy, it feels flowy.
Speaker 2:And I'm glad that you've reached that space, because I think that for you. It's time for you to you know, get back up on the stage and do stand up, because, first of all, the world's falling apart. So we need to see you and like what are your projects, what are your ambitions, even if they're not, you know, set in stone? Where are we going to find Jackie Steele in the future? What are some of the goals that we can put out in the ether? So maybe somebody hears this and says, hey, I want to fund that or something or be a part of it.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you for that.
Speaker 1:So, I think. First, I just want to hold space because the two of you have really been incredible examples for me of how you use your voice, how you are a powerhouse in these spaces, but also how you pull yourself out of a space if and when you need to, and that's not been easy. I've watched you both do it. We're in these streets together. I know what it's cost, but I also see you both on the other side of having to do those difficult breakups, whatever it is friendships, positions, working in these kind of more governmental, whatever spaces, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:When you know what's right for you, nobody can tell you different, and I appreciate both of you and you also both, I have to say, and I cry once a year, so I probably won't get emotional, but I will say that the both of you really picked me up and you, you know I always say no one's coming to get you, but that's not true, because I came and got you sometimes and you came to get me. You actually came to get me and said we're taking you out for the day. Yes, when the world was like. I don't think she's going to let her do what she's doing.
Speaker 2:No, fuck that. I was like let's go to Universal. That was a beautiful day. I felt like a sugar daddy. I was like I loved it.
Speaker 3:And shout out to Mother Karina.
Speaker 2:And it was so beautiful because that's the other thing too is like all of us, and that was why it was really intentional about bringing. You are always in like activists, let's help people, let's pour from our cup, let's pour from our cup. And I had a little, you know, and I wanted to pour from my cup into y'all and create something that it wasn't like hey, we're working, we're, we're. That's a fucking dinosaur, we're on a tram. Like what the fuck? Like it just spit at me.
Speaker 1:And I was also like you're going to sugar daddy me Please, daddy. Yes, See, then.
Speaker 3:In that time frame I had just ended some friendships, and one was a five-year friendship.
Speaker 2:Same.
Speaker 3:Y'all are both aware who the person is and it was very hurtful to hear them talk so poorly about me, because I do know what they said, um, especially about my situation at the time and you know, when this person was like a sister for five years, um, I just my heart just crumbled and you know, being around y'all that particular day it healed my soul because, being around you two and mother Karina, I was able to begin to like let that go. And I've been working through that, through therapy, letting go of any, um, uh, resentment. Yeah, so I can be on top of things and we need your voice so much in this community and you inspire me in ways, because you're another loud one like me. You're another one loud one like me and when you get up and you shout the truth, it's like you're six feet.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:It's just like you're six feet, but it also empowers me that, hey, it's okay to be loud.
Speaker 3:Hey it's okay to get that messaging out there because I need y'all to listen to me, right? You know, recently I don't know, you did not know this, but I was not selected for the Transgender Advisory Board. Oh, I didn't know that this go around, and so we just found out this week. Oh, I didn't know that, okay, out this week. And so you know, I have thoughts about that and I think for me my time has definitely come to an end there. I was the person that fought for the name of the Transgender Advisory Board. When it came to our events, I was just like the tone has to be the Transgender Advisory Board of the City of West Hollywood Presents, because their whole thing was the City of West Hollywood and its Transgender thing was the city of West Hollywood and it's Transgender Advisory Board. And I went to those folks and I say it looks like y'all are stealing from us and stealing our creativity, our ideas, and so I demand that y'all change our labor and I demand you change it.
Speaker 3:And they had no problem with that and so being on there for like three or four years, it's been great. Seppi Shine was the one that brought me there. Shout out to Seppi. Seppi believed enough in me and I was so grateful and so humble to be there on that Transgender Advisory Board.
Speaker 3:I think that the way that they got rid of me was unfair and wrong, especially when there could have been, when you have access to me and you could have communicated that to me. But I must tell you what I believe is happening. I believe that the universe is protecting me from a crumbling, and I think the crumbling is going to happen with all these boards and commissions, but I also think the crumbling is going to happen with city council and it's coming soon. And I believe the universe is removing me from a crumbling that's going to impact so many different people because, number one, we're under a Trump administration, right, they're already looking to cut funding. Right, and they're already attacking the city, the city of West Hollywood. They're a counter protest against queer people in the city of West.
Speaker 1:Hollywood. There was a hate incident within 25 minutes of the announcement of the election in the city of West Hollywood because you know, I started getting calls from one of the bars and I think you know, look as you know I still work on a lot of the safety stuff in those times.
Speaker 2:As much as you try to escape, you can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah well and I'm feeling rested. So I've got, like everyone, I feel like now, where we are and where I'm finding myself in terms of you're asking, like, what I'm doing is you know the and I want to touch on something Blossom mentioned as well, but I think you know where we are is a lot of folks are exhausted and drained and terrified, rightfully so, on all counts. You know, whatever everybody needs to do at this point is exactly what they should be doing. I've taken this year and so I'm like okay, let's rock, like let's, I'm ready to knuckle up all day. So, because I'm rested, because I've spent that time, because I did all this stuff Right, I'm rested because I've spent that time, because I did all this stuff right. And I think you know your place, your position on those bodies, your voice. What you bring to the table not brought, because it doesn't matter what the title is, it's around. Titles are always relevant to me what you brought to that, to that table, and what you've brought to the community has affected it and that's like that's a period. That's a period Like there's no end to that right, there's no going back on that. You shapeshifted. You shapeshifted the way that they address things, the way they position things. You taught city staff and leadership how to position things and they did. They were willing to receive.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there's people that aren't in this and that, but then there are people that are and changing those things. And I remember when I worked at the city to add pronouns and we had all that dialogue and then there wasn't pronouns on the hiring for the city and so a community member that wanted to apply called me. They were like shocked, they were upset, and I said give me like an hour, I'll call you back. And I made a bunch of calls and the city was like we have to—we'll sort it out. And it wasn't. Not everything is is someone aiming to do that? Sometimes it's just they're all trying to get things done and they're not looking at it and no one's waving that flag. But when someone comes in like you, someone teach as a teachable moment when you say now there are pronouns on all the hiring, now they've adjusted the entire hiring pattern to reflect. But the point of that is to say you shifted the way that those things are positioned.
Speaker 1:And I remember saying in council, speaking specifically about you and one of the items that you know everybody was talking about, and I was furious I'm often furious as calm as I am now. I was furious about the way you were being received, because it's what I see so often, specifically with black women and specifically with trans women. Okay, and the reality, and I've said the problem is you only want to hear us when we're screaming, because it's more convenient than hearing our pain. But we start out trying to talk, we start out trying to address and you let this community, shane has to stand there and scream and stop. And then it's they were this and blossom has to pop all the way off, which is always tasty to watch. But were this and Blossom has to pop all the way off, which is always tasty to watch, yeah, but not necessary and it shouldn't be necessary. You shouldn't be required to have that energy.
Speaker 2:No, that was painful to do that. For me that was a trauma, like that's not something I wanted to do and I was quiet at first and I was giving them the information and it got to the point where I had to get to weird shit that was going on. But I will agree with you that there are a lot of city staff that does try, like you know, shout out to to moya you know, oh yeah, I want to like give moya a moment, because I don't think that they get enough representation.
Speaker 2:They're a non-binary staff member that is truly like an anchor as well in the city. That um helped a lot of the stuff that we were doing when we were doing the sexual assault and the test strips and everything. So much so that, like people were saying like tab was doing more than council was a certain point that we were acting as council members, which I understand where that perception came from. But the subject matter that we were covering, like tab, like I was the chair of tab and I use, you know, using white privilege in that space and also the privilege that I had as chair to have that conversation, because there were so many people that came forward to me that weren't perfect victims.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So they weren't listened to and because I was, you know, whatever fit, whatever metrics of like, I wasn't a guy that goes around drinking and gets, you know, I'm very responsible. So for that to happen to me the way that it did, it was obviously like, oh shit, something is really going on in this situation. We need to take a look at it. Meanwhile, there was, you know, countless, especially gay men that, hey, maybe they were doing poppers that night or something, or maybe some sort of illicit something. So they couldn't feel like they could fully tell what happened because, again, they weren't the perfect victim. And it wasn't until I came along as like, hey, this super responsible guy who is on all these boards and all of this stuff, and, oh my God, it happened to him. And there was even a privilege in that space, because I don't think that I would have even made the impact that I did if I was just a regular degular guy.
Speaker 1:Can I offer a thought on what you just said?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. I could always be wrong here. No, I'm not that kind of white guy. I love being wrong.
Speaker 1:Responsible guy, but you also had a responsibility because you took that position to be a leader and that's you leading. And it was not fucking easy, and I think the fact that we even have the phrase perfect victim says everything we need to know about sexual assault in this country. Right, uh, there's no perfect non-victims. So what? What does a perfect victim or anything even look like?
Speaker 2:but.
Speaker 1:I think that's part of it, um, and I think that that's what activists are for. That's what we're supposed to do. That's why we lean into these positions. Right, it's it's. We're not self-aggrandizing, we're not here, I'm not ever running.
Speaker 2:No I set myself on fire and lost everything. I mean, you know, I literally lost my life savings. I lost everything to fight, like people still don't fully know how, like the fact that I'm here and doing this and being where the fuck I am. Like the people that know me, close to me, like you and blossom, know how far down I was and how much I lost to fight that fight for so many other people that's that's the sacrifice, and that's what you do, and that's what people do, and it takes, it takes and it takes things from you, but that's a sacrifice you make for community.
Speaker 1:If I can offer just a couple of thoughts in terms of like Please, it's your episode.
Speaker 1:Tell us no, no, no, like where to go, and all this jazz, I think we're like look, we don't, we don. We know that we need to figure out how to work in community. We know that the other side is constantly holding hands under the table and that's why they're able to move forward. We know that we have a lot of anti-racism work to do in the LGBTQ community. That needs to be at the forefront of every single queer leader's body of work. In my opinion, anti-trans sentiment needs to be at the center of the work and uplifting and bringing folks into the space. But I think I'd love.
Speaker 1:My interest right now is in finding ways to get queer candidates uplifted and elected, to get black candidates uplifted and elected in real, tangible ways that move things forward. Not just an endorsement, not just these things. What does it look like to create a body of work where, for example, we build something where queer candidates can come to us, candidates can come to us and apply and instead of just giving them here's $200 that you're going to spend on one you know social post or something we literally build an infrastructure where we have mentorship social media posts not even you're doing the work.
Speaker 1:You go be a candidate. You go win. You go be a queer leader. There is a room full of people there are go win, you go be a queer leader. There is a room full of people. There are experts in their fields that will execute your social media.
Speaker 2:Build a static website, phone bank for you that's so fucking important, because I've even considered it and a lot of people go shane why are you not doing it? And I will tell you I have imposter syndrome. I will tell you, I look at it and I go like I don't know if I could meet the. But then I'm like, look at who's doing it and it's, but like also I don't want to go up there and give people false hope as well.
Speaker 2:I, because if I were to do you know I do things but you're the definition of hope, so you can never get false I don't know I, but I still have that, that that imposter syndrome on stepping into that role, because I I feel like there's like I don't know, like some sort of class they took or something. That I'm not, that I haven't.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean it's cis privilege, it's white privilege, it's it's male privilege. So lean into that. But okay reality and the other, I guess, but the reality is it is that privilege and what we know from working in these, at least the democratic spaces and some of that type of work that I've, you know, in Boston.
Speaker 1:I've done this work together and we know, but like these folks have to work three times harder to get the dollar, to get the vote and you have major LGBTQ organizations who I won't call out because we're going to try to make some changes, but I will say that we need to be elevating these folks and rather than saying I endorse you Okay, well, I get a logo for that Joke. Now what do I do? Instead of that, there's leadership development, there's bringing folks in who want to run and there's elevating you, not telling you what you're not doing, telling you what you can do, not telling you who you should be, elevating who you are right.
Speaker 1:That is why you're in that role. These people don't have anything. I'm in these spaces with these people, and you know.
Speaker 2:So that's not the reality, right, folks?
Speaker 1:like that want you to believe and want people to believe, so you don't rise. That is what this country and this system is built on only a certain amount of folks rising, and there's some great people in leadership roles that are elected that it ain't everybody. So let's not start with the nonsense. But the reality is, the construct is jacked okay, and so when I'm looking at what's my role, I don't want to run, but when I hear you run, I want to know. That's exactly who I'm talking about. I want to build a framework.
Speaker 2:I keep feeling that pull for some reason. But it's that imposter thing and it's also I guess you're right I just don't have it's hard for cause. If I'm going to do something, I need to see what the five-year plan how do we achieve? And for me, I do have to. Even though I'm white, I'm still a trans person and it's still like how am I going to navigate that? Because look at what's going on with sarah mcbride she's still getting misgendered by this, that and the other, and don't but still I can, I can do that easy and easy peasy pie.
Speaker 2:But also, like the fundraising thing, like you said and this is what we were talking about even in the episode with uh ryan and greg is like the liberal side does not fund or create this channel at all. Like it's like, like, like I love the idea that kamala harris is considering ruddering again right, let's, let's, let's have that conversation. But at the same time, like why is it only like three people to choose from and that's all we have? Like we have pete budaj, kamala harris, barney sanders, aoc. Like why is there still not a whole bunch of other people on the pipeline coming up from behind them, since they're moving positions?
Speaker 2:But then there's like this elitist thing that goes on. And I gotta be frank with you. I've been invited to the Stonewall Dems and I've always resisted it. Can I, can I be real with you? Because I am very blue collar? I'm, and, and when I'm in the organization and when I'm in that space and when I'm around a lot of those people, um, sometimes and this is probably gonna say it wrong too, some of the conservative talking points about like blue collar working and stuff. I see that because I still work a blue collar job, right? So when I'm in these like really elitist dem spaces, I'm like this, ain't it Like what the fuck are we doing, talking about followings and shit, when there's all of these things and uh, coalitions we could be building and resources, and but meanwhile it's like oh, uh, she's got a Gucci bag on. I'm like what the fuck are we?
Speaker 1:doing it's business as usual, and it's the same old, same old. We cannot move forward with the same old, same old. We cannot move forward with the same old, same old, and so I want to share something. But, Blossom, did you want to add something to that?
Speaker 3:No, I was thinking like with Sarah McBride. I've known her for over a decade when I started doing activism with HRC, because HRC was the reason how I got my platform. I met Sarah then, so she was the press secretary, secretary for the human rights campaign before she became a senator. And so I just want to say with Sarah, she's worked so hard.
Speaker 2:Yes, she has.
Speaker 3:Right, sarah has built everything that she has got, and it's a little challenging when some trans people of color who don't know Sarah kind of put her in this box of judgment.
Speaker 3:And I'm not saying she can't be criticized for anything that she says or do, but she's really there to do the work. And I think it's different when you personally know somebody versus like what you see on television or on the internet or whatever like that, because optics are an illusion to me and I've always felt that way. And you know we're talking about Stonewall Democrats and running for office, and there've been times where I've thought about running for office as well too, but I always go for who is going to be my inspiration, right, and I think people like representative jasmine crockett yeah, um is a very great example for me, because one thing about her is she gonna sit up there and say what she needs to say, right, and then you know, especially with her going against nancy mason, what's that other girl name? Um, marjorie marjorie, uh, taylor green or whatnot, like I see so much. Whatever the fuck it is, listen, I see myself in that.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, and you body bleach yeah, and I think what is it? And you know what I think? Same too. I feel yeah because to see yourself in it.
Speaker 2:Talking to Ben Shapiro. Right yeah, before I had that interaction with him, I had this idea of who he was right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:And then when I was sitting there on the set and watching how he was in it because, again, my interaction with him was later in the episode, even if they showed it sooner because that's how editing works I, um, I realized like this guy ain't shit and it's.
Speaker 2:It's crazy because, like, even like in the government positions we've been in, I've had that also imposter syndrome. But then when I do go in the room I'm like holy shit, what do you mean? You have like it's easy for me to look at a situation, even if I don't have full knowledge on it, and be like, oh, I can hear your point, I can hear your point, I can hear how the two of you are misinterpreting each other, and I'm really good at at at that connection thing. I mean that's why even the episode sometimes we can go on tangents and I can hear what everybody's saying and find that point and land us and like that works in politics really well and I can see myself doing that. But at the same time it's like there's no true like funding source or mentorship, but it sounds like you're building it and I just want to say thank you for doing that, especially with queer folks, because our lack of representation, especially as like a trans mask individual.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I have a very unique life that I live Like it's. It's the combination of like yes, I still deal with the patriarchy and all the things that women have to deal with Right Of sit down, be quiet of like yes, I still deal with the patriarchy and all the things that women have to deal with right Of sit down, be quiet, but, at the same time, I still deal with men's mental health, of like, the expectations of a man and all of the challenges that come with that, which is not an easy thing to navigate and does not also have resources.
Speaker 2:So I kind of got the shitty end of both sticks. It's like, sit down and be quiet but carry all the heavy shit too. So, like it's a very interesting path to walk and a lot of people don't even understand that my perspective I can look at a situation where we're talking about sexual violence and and and really truly understand it in so many layers because I am trans, because I have that perspective of like understanding what it's like to experience it, but also the male's perspective as well, and even like the effects of testosterone can be very powerful in that, and that's even something that a lot of cis women are not even aware of of like, damn testosterone make you a horny little toad. You know what I mean, like and like to the point where, like whoa bro, I didn't know this is what you guys were dealing with.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, but like that is true intersectionality yeah, the thing is these words are used, right, but what are we really? That's and that's why I like. When I spoke at the reproductive rights rally, I was like all of this signage behind me, absolutely not. All of this signage is cis driven. We are not having a multi-layered conversation. We're not talking about reproductive rights for trans men. We're not talking about SA. When we're talking about SA, we're not including gay men in the conversation. And we can talk about these things and we can talk about ourselves in the kind of wholeness of community and still respect and focus on the nuance and the specificity. Right, we can have a body that represents all these things and never take away from this other area, because we allow and build up a very specific conversation and work with that level of intention. But I think when there's so many people that are there to self-center and self-aggrandize, that aren't genuinely there for the lift, that's where we are. That's why we are where we are. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I want to do the work and change my name, actually, like I literally would just disappear after it was done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so how do y'all feel about this around boundaries and activism? Yeah, now, going back to what you just said about like the signage or whatnot could we make room for? Because this is not my lived experience, I don't have the capacity to talk about it, but I feel that if you should be a part of the conversation, then you should put your signage next to me. I shouldn't be doing that labor. How do we feel about that? And should there be a balance between that? Because I think that's also what's happening too. Like I talked about in the last episode, there's a difference between commentary and just lived experience, and when talk as a trans woman, when I talk about trans men, it's not my lived experience, but for commentary reasons, because it's a trans issue, I talk about it and I have to talk about it in a way that does not make me seem like that's my lived experience and that I know it all. And so, applying that to what you just said, like, where do you think the line should be drawn or lifted?
Speaker 1:I think that it's the responsibility of leaders in a space to think from that lens right, and it's almost like if you're going to do a project and you were like these are the three things I want to do in this podcast and every single episode I do this. I do a solid intro, I do a guest development and I do a solid outro and make sure the audience knows where to find me. Those are the three things. As a stand-up, I get up, I make sure the crowd knows who I am, I deliver to the room and I make sure they know where to find me. It's like boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 1:So for me, when I talk about activism, it's that. So when I'm saying it, I'm not saying it as I should be the person to say it or that anybody should be. What I'm saying is I want those leaders to know, I want you to rethink how you're walking into these spaces and how you're creating these spaces. So the next time we've now done this, there will be a trans woman up at this podium, there will be additional signage, because you've brought in more people and you've worked with the intention of what you speak about. Right, it's performance-based and not performative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you're performing and that, I think, is the. That's what I hope and that's kind of what I want to hold community to. And I think even when I was in Stonewall, I was the leadership development chair and I shut down the entire program. Two things happened during that time. A lot's happened, but two things happened during that time. The first thing is they came to me the heads of the political and the president at the time and they said oh, you're really tapped in the community and we really need some transgender people involved. And I said I'm going to stop you there. Why don't you have already? How long has this organization been operating? You don't folks on this body that are representative of our full community, and I want to know why. I want to unpack.
Speaker 3:Do you remember?
Speaker 1:when this was. I think this was where did. Where were you when we met? What role were you in when we when me met? Cause I was a chair of leadership development.
Speaker 3:Did you come in after that? I was when Ashley Marie Preston when she was there.
Speaker 1:I think this was, I think this was before that Cause. Then I left for a chunk of years, so, and basically I was like I'm not bringing my community into a harmful space and until I know why this isn't a safe space for community, we're going to have to unpack that. Um, and we did. And then, you know, we got some folks involved. But then then we I was doing the DEI, excuse me, no, I was doing the leadership program.
Speaker 1:No no, no, no, Before, well before, that was right, exactly, exactly. I'm like, oh, we could have an entire you know episode on that, but on the nonsense.
Speaker 2:I love the button, thank you.
Speaker 1:They're taking away DEI. You never let black women do the work in the first place.
Speaker 3:Exactly Hello.
Speaker 1:So I'm like but that was, it was cute. So I think we shut down the program because I said there are some intersectionality issues here, there's a lot of misogyny here, there's racism here, and until the leaders all go through an unpacking whiteness seminar, until we start to do some of this work, I'm not going to bring people in and develop them and tell them this is a safe space to learn and grow. So sometimes it's just shutting shit down and addressing it in the house before you bring folks into the house, and sometimes it's, you know, in the mix, whatever, but it's, it's how we get there. And I think these spaces, um, I think there's work to be done. It's just a matter of who's in the space.
Speaker 2:But if you want to run, please, well, on that note, jackie, um, do something. Where the hell can people find you? I love it. You know where I'm going. I have to be professional, okay, uh, where the hell can people find you? I know your socials are off right now, but we're going to turn them back on, allegedly right. Um, we'll put them in the caption below for folks to also find on the video, and then I know you're going to get back into some stand-up stuff. Hopefully we can get you on tiktok. I'm trying. I know I have an addiction to tiktok.
Speaker 1:I'm just getting everybody on there who else like, goes viral and shuts everything down. It was not, it was a weird flex, but I needed it, so it happens um, but where can folks find you?
Speaker 2:and then, uh, what is your? One quick short message to the queer young folks that are dealing with this administration, because you and I and blossom even though she doesn't look at um are allegedly a little older and dealt with.
Speaker 3:Uh oh, that was a compliment.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, that was not backhanded, that was, that was cute, that was cute what are you?
Speaker 2:talking about. I gave you a kiss on the other episode. Um, anyways, what would you tell that young queer person? Because we listen, we didn't have rights back in the day, like when we grew up, like none of this stuff even existed and we built this stuff and now it's a little bit being taken away because it's going through a growth period, is what I'm going to call it. What are you going to tell these folks that feel like their whole life they saw equality and now it's being ripped away? What are you going to tell them? That to give them the fucking hope to not?
Speaker 1:you know, yeah, solid question, I think for lots of pressure. You got to solve it I take offense to the word short though, but I think um kidding oh my God, I just heard it oh.
Speaker 2:God, cancel me, cancel me.
Speaker 1:I knew I was going to bring it right now. Um, I think number one you can email me at Jackie steel LA at gmailcom. You can get ahold of me through uh, through Shane and blossom, and always happy to answer any questions or offer any community support if needed, or how to get folks engaged in spaces. I think, in terms of our youth and just community and where we are, I think we need to recognize that this is a revolution. We need to recognize that what our ancestors built for us, what our community built for us, how we got to the rights that we are now complaining are being taken away, which is understandable. We need to restart by respecting how we got them, how we got here, and I think we forget.
Speaker 1:I think for a variety of reasons. Right, we're a bit of a fast food, fast paced society and I think we want everything at our fingertips, but our history is long and deep and we need to spend more time. I'm interested in bridging the gap for people. I'm interested in educating our youth and helping support how we bring folks into the frame and go. You know, maybe we do a little tea with Blossom and talk about community and talk about history and talk about the future. Right, like these are the moments just conversation, and, I think, the biggest thing I can offer. I went to the Loyola Marymount University convening on Project 2025 last Saturday and I spent the day there and it was actually. I've gone to a lot of things that don't have teeth. I think a lot of these bodies, boards, all these groups there aren't a lot of teeth and I like teeth. I want something that's going to get something done. I want to see some voices and hear some voices that are going to get something done.
Speaker 2:Well, they keep removing the teeth Right. Well, but that's but then we, I think.
Speaker 1:But I think it's about also knowing if a body ain't for me, then I'm not going to get my work done there.
Speaker 2:There's a reason I'm not on certain commissions. They have no teeth. I'm not interested. Same Period.
Speaker 1:Love it. Love it for you. There's no teeth. You won't see me spending my time. I will celebrate the effort you're putting in, but it ends there.
Speaker 1:For me, this day was because it was truly educational and not in a talking at you way. It was professors, it was lawyers, it was people fighting these cases in court right now, people that are teaching on this and fighting it simultaneously, and it was, uh, we're activists with like long bodies of work and the number one thing and I'm thrilled to call you but you know I always call you in on something, so I'm like you're cool. I mean, I'm a call a cool human also. Um, we are, uh, I'm looking at doing like a, like a KYRs program, at pride. Um, I am. I am not thrilled that our prides are just going to happen this year. I'm not thrilled that we're just going to do pride Like shit's okay. Um, I'm not opposed to anybody like having a good time party cutting up, God knows. You both know what I'm saying is we're really just going to execute this year Like it's just been, like it's just another year. We're not in this.
Speaker 2:Well, the corporate, you know, gays are right.
Speaker 1:But the reality.
Speaker 1:But we all have a responsibility in this space.
Speaker 1:And so, for example, I got a letter from one of the major, major, major prides not LA, not in this state, um and.
Speaker 1:And the two pages deep were about we stand with and we believe in the same old shit, right? And I was like I'm just going to read this again and look for where it says you won't take a single dollar from, you will not accept a sponsor who, oh, it doesn't say that, right, because you're still not going to vet your sponsors, you're still not going to reject corporate dollars from these spaces. You're still not going to say if you've harmed our community, if you've pulled back your DEI efforts, if you support these things, if you funded these things, we won't take your money. I would rather gather in a park and, I don't know, jump rope or something, than watch a stage that was funded by trash. And I think, until we recognize we're in a revolution, until we recognize we need to buck up and do things differently and this corporate ownership of our rainbow and who we are to the point where they can put it up and pull it down whenever they feel like.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I was just going to say that point is the fact that this year, from my understanding, a lot of prides are now struggling because all those corporate dollars are now being pulled away. Good, yeah. Good, good, but it should show all those folks that were in those positions, that were making all those gobs of money, how fragile and how much those activists that you ignored were important to even your wallet.
Speaker 1:But that's how important it is to make sure you are working with partners who are there for us and not just to get what they can.
Speaker 2:Well, that was the kind of behavior that we were always trying to advocate, for this was going to happen, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because a lot of these corporations that have pulled out, especially under Trump's DEI, like it was performative activism in the first place and we've called it out every year, they just slapped a rainbow on it.
Speaker 1:But this is why I keep saying there's a reason. We are where we are. That's right. Are we are not better than this. We are not less racist than this as a country. We are not less transphobic as this. This is who we are. That's the bottom line on the collective whole.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of greed involved as well.
Speaker 1:Well, there's greed Again. That's the baseline of all of this right.
Speaker 2:It's the root of all evil. Right.
Speaker 1:Tracy Porter, who is a black woman, a lesbian, an activist. She wrote a sub stack and she was talking about some experience with white fragility and one of the lines she wrote that I thought was so brilliant was this is power defending itself and that was about a specific situation, but I thought that line this is power defending itself this is what we're looking at.
Speaker 1:We've seen people rise up on a tiny bit, and it is. They waited until they could stomp it down, but we're not being stomped down. So, in terms of my message, for our youth or community, this is a moment in history of a history that's got a lot more years to be made. We have a lot more work to do. There are a lot of people who fought and lost their lives in the revolution to get us here, and this is our revolution. This isn't our comment section.
Speaker 1:This is our revolution and the reality is, until we embrace that and until we pull each other in and together we can battle about a conversation, we can go and we have this is the thing we can do these things, but I'm going to ride for you, period, because you're my family and we're a community. We have to learn that Battle over. I have an argument. Debate a fact, debate a conversation. Have a different opinion. Also, learn to have a different opinion. Now, if it's not offensive racism, that type of stuff, obviously those aren't opinions, honey. But if you have, a different opinion about a topic.
Speaker 1:Okay, you like cilantro, I don't. You like something, I don't. Whatever it is that you can do, okay, we can have those things. You can have a different opinion. You can come to things a different way. No one's answer is the right answer. This has to be done in a collective, with respect for the nuance and the different sections of our community. Know your rights. Tell your friends their rights. Tell your friend's friends their rights. Tell your friend's grandmother their rights. You cannot share people's rights.
Speaker 1:Now enough and the baseline of what it means. There's the emotion and the fear around what's happening, understandably, but then there's the fact, and the facts around what's happening are paramount right now. Yes, we have to make sure people understand. This is what was just said was going to be done. This is why this will not happen. This is why this could happen. This is what it means in real time. This is what it means to you and these are your resources. That's it. So, talking about some of the kyr stuff at pride we're looking at, maybe just going out and doing like ice information, information on trans rights, information on some of the bills that are happening right now and how folks can realistically get involved. Um, that's it. And on that note one, I know I talk too much no, no, that's what it's for.
Speaker 1:It's going to realistically get involved.
Speaker 2:That's it. And on that note, I know I talk too much. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's what it's for. It's a podcast, listen, that's what it's for. On that no, never apologize for speaking. What the fuck? One thing I want to say before I throw it to blossom I know these protect. First of all, I think it's intentional to make sure to actually go to the original creator and buy that shirt, because donations are actually being sent from that. So, folks, if you're buying that from someone else, please be intentional. And I know we're having the conversation about Can we tag that?
Speaker 1:Can we tag that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll tag it below and make sure to be intentional about that purchase. And I understand we're there to protect the dolls, right? Yes, but the bricks were the ones that stonewall and we have to protect those as well. We cannot just look at our community as a monolith. We protect all non-binary folks, our trans folks, if that's how they choose to identify. Jackie Steele, I do appreciate especially talking about bi erasure, because that's an important topic to me, for me as well, because I guess allegedly my wife is bisexual. I don't know, she just identifies as me at this point, but, um, it's important to For me to be an ally for your erasure and offer you a platform and some of those bricks have to be torn back down.
Speaker 1:Oh my god.
Speaker 2:And blossom. You want to close this out and do our amazing rap for the day and tell us where to follow and all that fucking beautiful shit you do I sure.
Speaker 3:Would You're so silly, Make sure you hit the subscribe button down below so that way you'll know when we post new videos when me and Shane are on the air. We thank you so much for watching and take a little time to enjoy the Transparency Podcast show. We'll see you next time.
